Home 2 Suites by Hilton proposed for Brooklyn

[thelakelander]

^That's definitely a flaw. The policies need to identity street hierarchy. Chelsea should not be viewed in the same light as Park. Some streets need to be designated as service or secondary corridors and others need to be designated differently. Without doing that, they'll never have a corridor that stretches blocks and blocks with complementary pedestrian scale uses at street level.

[acme54321]

Maybe they are starting to grow some balls?  Of it all I am most OK with the Florida Blue garage because of what it's facilitated down on the river.

[Steve]

I honestly don't think it's entirely that (unfortunately). With a couple exceptions, they definitely understood that Park and Rosselle were the important streets. Most were indifferent about the Chelsea treatment.

In listening to the discussion, I understand why staff did what they did as technically, they were following the existing law. (I'd like to see the staff reports for a couple of the other Park/Forest area projects). But either way, they need to make this one work.

The other objection they had was around the aesthetics. I kind of get it-they definitely seem to have gone low budget. At the same time, this isn't New York and this isn't the JW Marriott here. I think they could dress it up a little.

But with that said, I've always cared more about the site plans vs the architectural details, especially at this site.

[thelakelander]

^Same here. I don't care what type of materials were used on Gate, it's still a suburban gas station.

[tufsu1]

I'm still somewhat confused at why the Gate and Residence Inn projects weren't recommended for denial, much less approved in their current state.

only one DDRB board member voted no on Gate.

As to what is different now with DDRB - staff to the board now comes from DIA...and there is new talent there along with a new boss.

[FlaBoy]

^Same here. I don't care what type of materials were used on Gate, it's still a suburban gas station.

Better lobbyists and relationships. Simple as that.

[Steve]

I'm still somewhat confused at why the Gate and Residence Inn projects weren't recommended for denial, much less approved in their current state.

only one DDRB board member voted no on Gate.

As to what is different now with DDRB - staff to the board now comes from DIA...and there is new talent there along with a new boss.

Good. I'm glad they addressed that. I mean, I understand the position Staff was in - they are basically told to follow the rules and they did so. In going back, that IS the rule (law).

Now, the (law) is flawed. Every city has those streets that are "service" streets. Heck, in Chicago they handled it in the Streeterville neighborhood with an "upper" roadway and a "lower" roadway, so delivery/service vehicles use the lower level and regular cars/peds use the upper level. I don't see THAT happening here though!

Since we're not going down that path, we need to really understand and codify street hierarchy. For example, if they objected because they had a parking lot fronting Laura Street, then I'd agree with that. In that section of Brooklyn, I think the key streets you have to hold in Reverence are Riverside, Park, Forest, Myrtle at a minimum. If you really look at it you may also say Roselle and Jackson as well. I'd say most else would be a "secondary" street, and then we need to be realistic about streets that are cut off because of road/highway expansion, like Chelsea or the ends of streets that dead end into something.

[jaxjags]

^That's definitely a flaw. The policies need to identity street hierarchy. Chelsea should not be viewed in the same light as Park. Some streets need to be designated as service or secondary corridors and others need to be designated differently. Without doing that, they'll never have a corridor that stretches blocks and blocks with complementary pedestrian scale uses at street level.

See Peachtree Street Atlanta

[thelakelander]

What about Peachtree Street?

[jaxjags]

Blocks and blocks of pedestrian scale development on Peachtree Street. The point being if you look at all the places on Peachtree Street in ATL, the fronts facing the street are mostly pedestrian scale. The side and backs are either service or residential There are a few shopping  mall type places left over from the 70's, but they are slowly being replaced as land value increase. I agree the code/approach needs to treat each site relative to it's street environment. Not sure how ATL does it, but maybe we out smart ourselves and "over code".

[thelakelander]

Gotcha. Initially, I was thinking more along the lines of King Street in Charleston or Central Avenue in St. Petersburg over the last 20 years. The infill on Peachtree Street is another good example.

[jaxjags]

Did a little on line looking at Home 2 Suites facade's in other cities. First I think all are pretty ugly and suburban looking. Only one in NYC is in Long Island City in Brooklyn. Just as suburban looking as many others, just 12 stories high. Boston is more suburban than NYC. Mid town ATL has bigger windows. DT Columbus has wood accents. Charlotte is the worse. Same basic colors and façade as Jax, but is tall and skinny. Actually looks funny. Again some are a little better but still not much different than a suburban H2S. Remember where these rank in Hilton, as mid priced extended stay. I think the developers could afford the wood accents (which is probably not real wood) and change to the softer color scheme and get approval.

[thelakelander]

What do you think about their hotels in downtown Kansas City or Greenville, SC? To me, it would be nice to see the ground level along Park Street activated a bit more. I'd like with the regular hotel facade if extra attention could be provided to better integrating the restuarant and lobby area with the adjacent sidewalk on Park instead of the side streets.

[BridgeTroll]

Love the Greenville one... will stay there again

[Steve]

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/ddrb-says-brooklyn-home2-suites-by-hilton-looks-too-suburban

Mendenhall @ JDR did a nice writeup of the meeting.

While I don't want complete trash to get built downtown, I didn't think the aesthetics were THAT bad personally. Nothing to write home about for sure, but again, this isn't the Waldorf-Astoria here.

Plus, I'm much more interested in site plans vs. building aesthetics. If the ground floor is laid out well I'm good.