MOSH weighs relocating museum from its Southbank site in downtown Jacksonville

[acme54321]

Per the DIA meeting tonight, we're looking at a best case scenario of the new MOSH at the Shipyards opening in 2027.

I know things move at a snails pace here but curious as to why it may take that long?

My guess... Raising $85M, final design, red tape with they city, remediation of the site, construction of a specialized building, building out the exhibits.  Not your typical building job.

[Captain Zissou]

DIA board member Jim Citrano Jr. said several members hoped to see a site plan or design before the long-term ground lease returns to the board for a final vote in January.

After the meeting, Fafard said MOSH is beginning the design phase and the final design likely will be complete in mid-2022.

According to Boyer, MOSH would contract designs for the other 2.86 acres as a public park, Downtown Riverwalk extension and Emerald Trail connection.

The city would reimburse MOSH up to $500,000 for the public and park space design.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/vote-starts-clock-for-dia-to-complete-negotiations-for-mosh-site

These two items make me pretty nervous.  DIA approval without a design and 3 acres of public park with only $500k in reimbursement.  The city should set a minimum spend on the park or require certain things or I think we'll be getting another grass lot with some sidewalks and a small fountain.

[Ken_FSU]

The $85 million in fundraising makes me nervous.

Long way to go, but they started this capital campaign about a year ago, and have been stuck at around $11 million in private contribution and $20 million from the city for a bit now. Will obviously increase when the final design comes, the project is more concrete, they can hold some fundraising events, and hopefully there's some state money to be had, but feels like a lot of the major players in the city have already contributed.

So far, they've gotten $5 million from Shad Khan, $2.5 million from VyStar, a rumored $1 to $2 million from the Weaver family, $500k from PNC Bank, and some additional smaller donations.

I'm sure they get there eventually one way or the other, but I worry about this parcel getting locked into development hell for another decade while the MOSH pieces come together.

Particularly with the Jags contractually obligated to start construction of their development by June, and plans moving forward for a signature park on the opposite side of the MOSH parcel to satisfy a land swap for Kids Campus.

Throw in major stadium renovations, and it feels like we're looking at another decade before this area really starts to come together.

If the Orleck happens, it's gonna be a rough stretch for them trying to draw people in a construction zone without the museum.

[thelakelander]

Oh this area is another +10 years from significant change and probably +20 years away from full build out. Anyone who doesn't think so is fooling themselves and setting themselves up for a major disappointment. These things take time to develop in aggressively committed cities. Considering Jax speed, we can tack on another +5 years into that Shipyards development timeline. The quicker change will be in the Northbank with the cluster of adaptive reuse projects already underway. Unlike the waterfront east of Berkman, you'll see big change there in less than 5 years.

[tufsu1]

^ If we're lucky the Berkman II will be demolished in 5 years

[CityLife]

West Palm Beach's Science Museum just received a $20 million dollar lead gift for a $45 renovation that will expand the science museum and create one of the biggest aquariums in Florida. This was just announced publicly in November and construction will start in 2023, with completion in 2025. Compare to Jax, where MOSH 2.0 was announced in March 2019 and is anticipated to finish in 2026 (we all know this will be closer to 2030), and only has $11 million raised. I know fundraising is way easier in Palm Beach than Jax, but it's frustrating to see Jacksonville continue to languish.

Rendering of new science museum, which is about 10 minutes from Downtown, by the Zoo.


Both this museum and the Frost Science Museum in Miami have a big emphasis on aquariums and the environment. I've been saying this on here for years, but Jax will never have a stand alone aquarium, nor is here really a market for one, but this is a great opportunity to integrate an aquarium, environmental exhibits, and downtown ecotourism into MOSH 2.0. It's truly a chance for Jacksonville to make a big splash...

If Jacksonville was a well run city, it would hire someone solely to help MOSH identify all of the different opportunities to tie Mosh 2.0 expansion in with the river, Hogan's Creek, Exchange Island, The Emerald Trail, the Zoo, JU's Marine Science Institute, OCearch, Riverkeeper, and whatever else is out there. I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm not optimistic about the City's potential to pull this off the way its heading.

[tufsu1]

^ my understanding is that MOSH has raised closer to $30 million toward the budget of $80 million

[Ken_FSU]

^$11 million private plus a $20 million bribe from the city to get them over by Khan's development.

[Charles Hunter]

Just a guess, but [a] I don't think those dollars are imprinted with the word "bribe", and I bet they spend the same.

[Ken_FSU]

If Jacksonville was a well run city, it would hire someone solely to help MOSH identify all of the different opportunities to tie Mosh 2.0 expansion in with the river, Hogan's Creek, Exchange Island, The Emerald Trail, the Zoo, JU's Marine Science Institute, OCearch, Riverkeeper, and whatever else is out there. I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm not optimistic about the City's potential to pull this off the way its heading.

Just a guess, but [a] I don't think those dollars are imprinted with the word "bribe", and I bet they spend the same.

I don't blame them.

Collectively, Curry and Shad gave MOSH $25 million of their present $30 million to move across the river.

Hard to say no to that.

[tufsu1]

^$11 million private plus a $20 million bribe from the city to get them over by Khan's development.

agreed - but I thought Khan was only giving $5 million - or is the rest quiet money for now?

[jaxjags]

For the amount of money Shad may owe Urban, he could have supplied the rest of the funding for the MOSH.

[vicupstate]

For the amount of money Shad may owe Urban, he could have supplied the rest of the funding for the MOSH.

Maybe Urban Myer will make a donation.

[Ken_FSU]

^$11 million private plus a $20 million bribe from the city to get them over by Khan's development.

agreed - but I thought Khan was only giving $5 million - or is the rest quiet money for now?

Major private donations so far include $5 million from Shad Khan, $2.5 million from VyStar, a rumored $1 to $2 million from the Weaver family, and $500k from PNC Bank.

The $20 million from the city was your classic Jacksonville scenario where what may be a good idea (moving MOSH to the Shipyards) was handled so deeply in the shadows by the mayor's office that it sows needless distrust.

I joke that it was a bribe, but the truth really ain't that far off.

1. MOSH announces their Genesis plan to redevelop their existing campus on the Southbank.
2. DIA helps negotiate the sale of the River City Brewery to Related Group, with a selling point for Related being the close proximity to the museum
3. Lot J and the Four Seasons plans are marching forward, and the Jags/Mayors office decides it would be good to have MOSH nearby to support those developments
4. Magically, $20 million appears in the CIP to attract a "major cultural attraction" specifically to the Shipyards
5. Mayor's office and MOSH hold conversations behind the DIA's back that basically amount to "this $20 million is yours is you move across the river"
6. Shad Khan offers up another $5 million in private donations on his end
7. Related is like, "WTF?" The DIA is like, "WTF?"
8. The MOSH announces their move to the Shipyards

Don't personally have a strong feeling about the best location for the MOSH, just that the decision should have probably been made based on public input and a master plan for downtown, rather than shadow CIP dollars incentivizing them to abandon their former plan and move to the Shipyards.

In the spirit of clustering complementing uses in a compact setting, I do think there could have been some cool integration between Friendship Park/MOSH Genesis/and Related development with a nice pedestrian connection to the new Landing via the Main Street Bridge, but that ship has sailed

I think we'll see the Jags and City kick in addition millions in the coming years to bring this one home.

For the amount of money Shad may owe Urban, he could have supplied the rest of the funding for the MOSH.

Jags have zero intention on giving Meyer another dime.

Legal team is hard at work.

Firing will be for cause, based on his cumulative gaffes in conduct and honesty throughout his tenure with the Jags.

No negotiating is the word on the street.

They don't want him getting ANYTHING.

[heights unknown]

GET OUT!!! AND YOU AIN'T GETTING NOT ONE PENNY, NOT EVEN A DIME!!!