Confederate statue removed from Jacksonville park by city crews overnight

[Captain Zissou]

Unless Wayne and Delores have some skeletons hidden deep in their closet, I don't see anyone objecting to a statue of them.  James Weldon Johnson.

[BridgeTroll]

Lets memorialize the positive role models from throughout our city's history and not the reminders of the darker times.

I think in some ways that's easier said than done. Slave Labor built the White House (I bet we as a country couldn't pay for it without slave labor, one way or another). Our first President and the namesake of the country's capital was a slaveowner (he emancipated all of his slaves upon his death). Likewise was nearly every early president except for the Adams' father and son. U.S. Grant (Union General) owned a single slave as well - he gave him up just before the civil war.

My point is - while I certainly don't ever condone being uncivil, I think there is going to be some passion around this issue for a long time.

Grant married into a slave holder family. His family was abolitionist...

[jaxlongtimer]

Anna Brosche was prescient when she raised this issue.  Unfortunately, many skewered her for even bringing it up.  Let's note that Curry calculatingly whiffed on it (just as he did on the HRO) and likely used it as one more issue to beat Brosche up behind closed doors given how nasty his campaign against her was.  And now Curry will want credit for today.  Not so fast.  While better late than never, for Curry, it's more like catch-up political pandering.  No leadership there.

For a refresh:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/501871-confederate-statue-comes-down-in-jacksonville-florida-with-more-to

...Curry previously said he would not weigh in on the removal of the statue in 2017 after City Council President Anna Lopez Brosche called for its removal following the white supremacist "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville, Va., where one counterprotester died and 19 others were injured.

Brosche later proposed installing a monument to lynching victims next to the monument, which was defeated by the council in 2018...

A few more recaps:
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/243511-confederate-jax-council-public-comment
https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/post/jacksonville-city-council-president-calls-confederate-monument-inventory-removal
https://www.wokv.com/news/local/hate-emails-sent-jacksonville-city-council-president-over-proposal-remove-confederate-statues/RgjSvymmrHrTBVciXg8enO/

[BridgeTroll]

I  suspect Lee High will be renamed shortly. I just read the article below advocating the renaming of military bases such as Forts Bragg, Benning, Hood, etc...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/take-confederate-names-off-our-army-bases/612832/

[MandarinNole]

Can we just ban the use of the word triggered or snowflake?  Especially since the biggest proponents of those words are often the best examples of the same?  The president, for instance.

[Peter Griffin]

Can we just ban the use of the word triggered or snowflake?  Especially since the biggest proponents of those words are often the best examples of the same?  The president, for instance.

Nah, don't be silly.

[Peter Griffin]

Can we just ban the use of the word triggered or snowflake?  Especially since the biggest proponents of those words are often the best examples of the same?  The president, for instance.

Not sure what prompted this , but I would say anyone asking for those particular words to be banned is a snowflake that is easily triggered

you crack me up, Matt

[Steve]

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200610/list-here-are-11-jacksonville-civil-war-monuments-markers-coming-down

I need to really understand the Markers being removed. The statue in Hemming was commemorating those that fought for the confederacy. That is an apples and oranges comparison to a marker that just states that something occurred or something existed.

[thelakelander]

The markers are overkill, especially in a cemetery or historic park. For example, the Maple Leaf is a National Historic Landmark site that includes confederate, union and black history. It simply marks an event. Now, there are two markers on both sides of the river, one in Orange Park and the other in Mandarin. So at least one will still stay. Anyway, a cemetery or local history museum is where the two monuments should go.  The third is the grandstand in Old City Cemetery. I doubt that can be moved. If they bother with it, it will probably be demolished.

[Charles Hunter]

Agreed, do not understand removing the Maple Leaf and the battle markers. Makes no sense.

And, last night on National Geographic channel, their "Drain the Oceans" program featured the Maple Leaf.

[jaxlongtimer]

As noted, the sinking of the Maple Leaf was an event.  It is a central exhibit in the Mandarin Museum and at MOSH.  The bulk of its retrieved artifacts, as I recall, are in the State's Museum of Florida History in Tallahassee and in the National Museum of the U.S. Army in Virginia.  It has been said the Maple Leaf wreck contains the greatest collection of Union Army artifacts in the world.  It is estimated that less than 1 or 2% have been recovered.

Because of the amount and variety of items that were on-board, this shipwreck site is considered a cultural treasure chest. According to Edwin C. Bearss, former Chief Historian of the United States Department of Interior, National Park Service:

"The wreck of the Maple Leaf is unsurpassed as a source for Civil War material culture. The site combines one of the largest ships sunk during the war, carrying all the worldly goods of more than a thousand soldiers, with a river bottom environment that perfectly preserved the ship and cargo. It is the most important repository of Civil War artifacts ever found and probably will remain so."

https://www.mandarinmuseum.net/mandarin-history/maple-leaf

Most importantly, the Maple Leaf is a U.S. National Historic Landmark and one of only 7 shipwrecks so designated.  Here is the illustrious company it keeps:

1. Antonio Lopez
2. USS Arizona
3. Land Tortoise
4. USS Monitor
5. Truk Lagoon Fleet
6. USS Utah

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._National_Historic_Landmark_ships,_shipwrecks,_and_shipyards

Interestingly, the ship hosted both African American crewmen who perished with its sinking and Confederate prisoners:

The Maple Leaf sank quickly in twenty feet of water. Fifty eight passengers and the crew climbed into three lifeboats with only the clothes on their backs and rowed off to Jacksonville, fifteen miles away. Four African-American crewmen were killed in the forecastle by the explosion, and four Confederate prisoners were left behind, perched on the hurricane deck which was above water, because there was not room for them in their life boats.

https://www.mandarinmuseum.net/mandarin-history/maple-leaf

For more info and links see:

https://www.nps.gov/articles/mapleleaf.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maple_Leaf_(shipwreck)
http://www.mapleleafshipwreck.com/Book/other/contents.htm

[JeffreyS]

I  suspect Lee High will be renamed shortly. I just read the article below advocating the renaming of military bases such as Forts Bragg, Benning, Hood, etc...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/take-confederate-names-off-our-army-bases/612832/

Lee would want it changed I believe. He supported moving on, he wouldn't even let them fly the Confederate flag at Washington university when he was president there. 
https://www.businessinsider.com/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments-2017-8

[Peter Griffin]

I  suspect Lee High will be renamed shortly. I just read the article below advocating the renaming of military bases such as Forts Bragg, Benning, Hood, etc...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/take-confederate-names-off-our-army-bases/612832/

Lee would want it changed I believe. He supported moving on, he wouldn't even let them fly the Confederate flag at Washington university when he was president there. 
https://www.businessinsider.com/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments-2017-8

Thanks for posting this. I knew Lee was generally in favor of healing the wound of the war and attempting to bring unity after the Confederate defeat, which is admirable, but this is something I'd never heard of before. Lee seems like a decent guy post-war, or at the very least spoke like one

[BridgeTroll]

I  suspect Lee High will be renamed shortly. I just read the article below advocating the renaming of military bases such as Forts Bragg, Benning, Hood, etc...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/take-confederate-names-off-our-army-bases/612832/

Lee would want it changed I believe. He supported moving on, he wouldn't even let them fly the Confederate flag at Washington university when he was president there. 
https://www.businessinsider.com/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments-2017-8

Thanks for posting this. I knew Lee was generally in favor of healing the wound of the war and attempting to bring unity after the Confederate defeat, which is admirable, but this is something I'd never heard of before. Lee seems like a decent guy post-war, or at the very least spoke like one

I fine with changing Lee HS... but it certainly has not stopped at confederate names. Statues of Columbus have been defaced and torn down. What about names like Washington and Jefferson?  Cities, monuments, landmarks, and schools are named after them.  How far is everyone willing to go?

[JeffreyS]

I hear you BT where does it end.  I get that some American heroes are flawed and how we remember them is complicated. The confederates roll in the war was specifically Anti-USA so they are in a different category.