Confederate statue removed from Jacksonville park by city crews overnight

[Charles Hunter]

I think those who actively took up arms, or led the rebellious government, are an easy choice.
Had the British won in the 1770s/80s, or 1812-15, there would not be any statues to Revere, Washington, Jefferson, and so on.

[BridgeTroll]

We're having a difficult discussion on this kind of thing at UF. There have been a lot of protests calling for buildings like our student union and arena to be renamed because of the history of their namesakes. The Union was named after a university president who helped the Johns Committee hunt down LGBTQ students and faculty. The Arena was named after a university president who forced the withdrawal of dozens of black students seeking acceptance. Then you have residence halls named after the wives of Confederate cabinet members, or famous confederate figures. It's messy.

Torch it all, I say.

Things should not be named or placed commemoratively if their namesake was involved in any form of systematic discrimination or oppression.

"Because they've always been called that" isn't a good enough excuse to keep them intact.

What we've been doing since the founding of this country in terms of racial relations clearly hasn't worked.

Time for a change.

Perhaps even school mascots named after and depicting oppressed natives...

LOL! But that's a good point. The Indian names need to go if the rest of it does.

FSU Fighting Manatees?

[Adam White]

We're having a difficult discussion on this kind of thing at UF. There have been a lot of protests calling for buildings like our student union and arena to be renamed because of the history of their namesakes. The Union was named after a university president who helped the Johns Committee hunt down LGBTQ students and faculty. The Arena was named after a university president who forced the withdrawal of dozens of black students seeking acceptance. Then you have residence halls named after the wives of Confederate cabinet members, or famous confederate figures. It's messy.

Torch it all, I say.

Things should not be named or placed commemoratively if their namesake was involved in any form of systematic discrimination or oppression.

"Because they've always been called that" isn't a good enough excuse to keep them intact.

What we've been doing since the founding of this country in terms of racial relations clearly hasn't worked.

Time for a change.

Perhaps even school mascots named after and depicting oppressed natives...

LOL! But that's a good point. The Indian names need to go if the rest of it does.

FSU Fighting Manatees?

All joking aside, it would be great if a Florida college or university called themselves the Manatees.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

We're having a difficult discussion on this kind of thing at UF. There have been a lot of protests calling for buildings like our student union and arena to be renamed because of the history of their namesakes. The Union was named after a university president who helped the Johns Committee hunt down LGBTQ students and faculty. The Arena was named after a university president who forced the withdrawal of dozens of black students seeking acceptance. Then you have residence halls named after the wives of Confederate cabinet members, or famous confederate figures. It's messy.

Torch it all, I say.

Things should not be named or placed commemoratively if their namesake was involved in any form of systematic discrimination or oppression.

"Because they've always been called that" isn't a good enough excuse to keep them intact.

What we've been doing since the founding of this country in terms of racial relations clearly hasn't worked.

Time for a change.

Perhaps even school mascots named after and depicting oppressed natives...

LOL! But that's a good point. The Indian names need to go if the rest of it does.

FSU Fighting Manatees?

All joking aside, it would be great if a Florida college or university called themselves the Manatees.

Everyone come out and support your fighting River Potatoes!

LOL.  None of the joking would be aside. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

[Adam White]

We're having a difficult discussion on this kind of thing at UF. There have been a lot of protests calling for buildings like our student union and arena to be renamed because of the history of their namesakes. The Union was named after a university president who helped the Johns Committee hunt down LGBTQ students and faculty. The Arena was named after a university president who forced the withdrawal of dozens of black students seeking acceptance. Then you have residence halls named after the wives of Confederate cabinet members, or famous confederate figures. It's messy.

Torch it all, I say.

Things should not be named or placed commemoratively if their namesake was involved in any form of systematic discrimination or oppression.

"Because they've always been called that" isn't a good enough excuse to keep them intact.

What we've been doing since the founding of this country in terms of racial relations clearly hasn't worked.

Time for a change.

Perhaps even school mascots named after and depicting oppressed natives...

LOL! But that's a good point. The Indian names need to go if the rest of it does.

FSU Fighting Manatees?

All joking aside, it would be great if a Florida college or university called themselves the Manatees.

Everyone come out and support your fighting River Potatoes!

LOL.  None of the joking would be aside.

It's certainly nowhere near as cool as Jumbo Shrimp. Actually, shrimp and potatoes - a bit of a culinary theme. Let's rename the Jaguars STAT.

[OldOrangeHause]

The Duval Manatees has a ring to it.

[Snaketoz]

I agree with Steve.  Where is this to stop?  Jefferson? Washington? Jackson? Indian "fighters"? VietNam war vets?

It's difficult when it comes to US history, as so many owned slaves; however, I think removing monuments to people who were actively involved in the slave trade makes sense (not sure if there are any in the USA, but we had that over here recently). And removing statues and monuments to unjust wars is a good idea - nothing wrong with memorialising Vietnam war dead, but we shouldn't be celebrating that war.

"Indian" mascots should change. And Jackson was a pretty bad guy - I'd be comfortable with removing references to him.

Might give Jacksonville the chance to re-brand. My friend Jeremy always said Hart City would be his choice - but I think that was because he wanted to rename the Jaguars as the "Hart City Breakers" which is an excellent name, IMO.

Taking down the monuments will do nothing more than stoke people's thirst for more revisionist removals.  I agree with the statues of CSA generals, Jeff Davis, etal., but a statue of a solitary, unnamed soldier in Hemming Park?  He was a victim of the Confederacy too.  I bet less than a small percentage of Southern troops were slave owners.  They were fighting for their "homeland", victims of the time they lived in.  Eligible men not in the military were punished severely. They served right or wrong, many decades ago.
The only way to make up for past wrongs is to quit making them.  Invest in minority neighborhoods, fire/jail vicious police, give minorities the same breaks given to others.  Demand a citizen's review board.  This is just another token gesture that means little.  Do something meaningful and stop taking down memorials of soldiers who lived in a different era. 

[OldOrangeHause]

I agree with Steve.  Where is this to stop?  Jefferson? Washington? Jackson? Indian "fighters"? VietNam war vets?

It's difficult when it comes to US history, as so many owned slaves; however, I think removing monuments to people who were actively involved in the slave trade makes sense (not sure if there are any in the USA, but we had that over here recently). And removing statues and monuments to unjust wars is a good idea - nothing wrong with memorialising Vietnam war dead, but we shouldn't be celebrating that war.

"Indian" mascots should change. And Jackson was a pretty bad guy - I'd be comfortable with removing references to him.

Might give Jacksonville the chance to re-brand. My friend Jeremy always said Hart City would be his choice - but I think that was because he wanted to rename the Jaguars as the "Hart City Breakers" which is an excellent name, IMO.

Taking down the monuments will do nothing more than stoke people's thirst for more revisionist removals.  I agree with the statues of CSA generals, Jeff Davis, etal., but a statue of a solitary, unnamed soldier in Hemming Park?  He was a victim of the Confederacy too.  I bet less than a small percentage of Southern troops were slave owners.  They were fighting for their "homeland", victims of the time they lived in.  Eligible men not in the military were punished severely. They served right or wrong, many decades ago.
The only way to make up for past wrongs is to quit making them.  Invest in minority neighborhoods, fire/jail vicious police, give minorities the same breaks given to others.  Demand a citizen's review board.  This is just another token gesture that means little.  Do something meaningful and stop taking down memorials of soldiers who lived in a different era.

As a black person, the monuments and names didn't bother me at all. Most of which I never paid much mind too. They were whatever people made out of them. But as far as symbols of racism goes: twelve buckets of sea salt. Like it was stated previously: Washington owned slaves. Are they willing to knock over the Washington monument and strike his name from everything. Like the WWE did with Hulk Hogan?

[Charles Hunter]

We're having a difficult discussion on this kind of thing at UF. There have been a lot of protests calling for buildings like our student union and arena to be renamed because of the history of their namesakes. The Union was named after a university president who helped the Johns Committee hunt down LGBTQ students and faculty. The Arena was named after a university president who forced the withdrawal of dozens of black students seeking acceptance. Then you have residence halls named after the wives of Confederate cabinet members, or famous confederate figures. It's messy.

Torch it all, I say.

Things should not be named or placed commemoratively if their namesake was involved in any form of systematic discrimination or oppression.

"Because they've always been called that" isn't a good enough excuse to keep them intact.

What we've been doing since the founding of this country in terms of racial relations clearly hasn't worked.

Time for a change.

Perhaps even school mascots named after and depicting oppressed natives...

LOL! But that's a good point. The Indian names need to go if the rest of it does.

FSU Fighting Manatees?

All joking aside, it would be great if a Florida college or university called themselves the Manatees.

Back in the olden days, when UNF was new (mid 1970s), the university was starting to get into athletics. Of course they needed a team name. The administration held a vote among the students. Students who, at the time, were generally older than the faculty, working full time and going to UNF part-time, and were all commuters. Rumor has it that "Manatees" (or was it "Armadillos"?) won the vote. But the Administration would have none of that and chose "Ospreys".

In real news, UNF has appointed a Vice President of Diversity and Inclusion - https://www.unf.edu/publicrelations/media_relations/articles/vice_president_of_diversity_and_inclusion.aspx

The University of North Florida announces the appointment of Whitney Meyer as the University's Vice President of Diversity and Inclusion.

In Meyer's new role, she will be responsible for advising University leadership on diversity, inclusion and racial equality pertaining to strategies and policies, learning and research, community relations and the recruitment, retention and admission of faculty, staff and students of color.

[BridgeTroll]

In a sincere effort to get back on topic...

America Has Problems. Tearing Down Statues Won't Solve Them

https://quillette.com/2020/06/12/america-has-problems-tearing-down-statues-wont-solve-them/

[bl8jaxnative]

The biggest problem America has right now is a giant group of people who have taken up the old school religion, only instead of constantly  seeing the devil _EVERYWHERE_ and casting out "the devil" and all that, they call it "racism".  Different label, same broken psychology and damaging behaviors.    Hopefully this mind virus will burn itself out before destroying and killing even more people than it already has.

[Adam White]

I agree with the statues of CSA generals, Jeff Davis, etal., but a statue of a solitary, unnamed soldier in Hemming Park?  He was a victim of the Confederacy too.  I bet less than a small percentage of Southern troops were slave owners.  They were fighting for their "homeland", victims of the time they lived in. 

It's more than "less than a small percentage". In any event, they may not have been slaveholders, but certainly weren't victims.

https://acwm.org/blog/myths-and-misunderstandings-slaveholding-and-confederate-soldier/

[vicupstate]

I agree with the statues of CSA generals, Jeff Davis, etal., but a statue of a solitary, unnamed soldier in Hemming Park?  He was a victim of the Confederacy too.  I bet less than a small percentage of Southern troops were slave owners.  They were fighting for their "homeland", victims of the time they lived in. 

It's more than "less than a small percentage". In any event, they may not have been slaveholders, but certainly weren't victims.

https://acwm.org/blog/myths-and-misunderstandings-slaveholding-and-confederate-soldier/

For the ones that were not slave owners, I do feel they were a victim IN A SENSE.  They had been duped into fighting and in many cases dying for the benefit of the wealthy.  Not only did they have nothing to gain, they would have benefited from not having to compete with slave labor, had slavery simply been outlawed. Of course, to the degree they were forced to serve, that would make them even more so a victim.

Of course, there was nothing stopping them from heading North and fighting for the union either.

[thelakelander]

I agree with the statues of CSA generals, Jeff Davis, etal., but a statue of a solitary, unnamed soldier in Hemming Park?  He was a victim of the Confederacy too.  I bet less than a small percentage of Southern troops were slave owners.  They were fighting for their "homeland", victims of the time they lived in.

Isn't that statue a silent sentinel or pretty close to one? I know that the Union monument in Evergreen is:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-those-confederate-soldier-statues-look-a-lot-like-their-union-counterparts/2017/08/18/cefcc1bc-8394-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html

Anyway, what that statue represents has less to do with the percentage of troops owning enslaved and more to do with the time in which it was installed and why. When the Hemming statue was installed in 1898, Jacksonville was majority African American and full of black local southerners who were Union veterans. There's a reason that our first local civil war monument was a Union one and our first school named after a civil war figure was Stanton.

From our local demographic perspective, why would the majority of the city decide to install a structure that represents the complete opposite of what they fought against? Because this took place during the era of the Lost Cause of the Confederacy, in which sympathizers across the south rebranded the cause of the Confederacy as a just and noble one. These samy sympathizers were also working their asses off to implement segregation and disinfranchisement of the local black population. This period had two peaks. The first roughly occurred between the late 1890s and WWI. The second took place in response to civil rights and desegregation efforts of the 1950s and 60s.