ATL problems vs JAX problems

[Bill Hoff]

I read a short list of complaints/problems about Atlanta's Downtown that sound as if they could be about Jacksonville's Downtown, which I found interesting. Strange to think very different cities are percived to have very similar issues. I guess the only difference is scale...

"I've never seen a city where downtown is as underwhelming relative to the rest of the city than Atlanta.

More visible homelessness in this downtown than any other besides LA/SF. Atlanta was named America's most unequal city due to its large underclass, and that's reflected here.

Downtown has more parking lots with no apparent commercial use, getting overrun by weeds, than any other downtown I've seen.

It has competition from nearby similar business centers, namely Midtown, which houses the uber-luxury typically found in most CBDs."


From:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/marketurbanismreport/?ref=share

[Steve]

It's interesting to take some perspective. Compared to the size of the city, Downtown Atlanta is really underwhelming. Top 12 MSAs:

NY
LA
Chicago
DFW
Houston
DC
Miami
Phily
Atlanta
Phoenix
Boston
San Fran

I've visited all of these downtowns except Phoenix and Houston (some for longer than others). Of what I've seen, Atlanta is definitely an oddball.

I've always felt like very few locals spend any time downtown unless they are:
- Going to the World of Coke/Aquarium
- Going to GWCC
- Going to MB Stadium (Falcons game or other event)

Midtown definitely competes with Downtown a bit, as Piedmont Park is really awesome. Interestingly, the nature of the development around there doesn't take advantage of it as much as they could.

This highlights the fact that a downtown entirely event driven doesn't work.

[thelakelander]

I've been to all of these except for Phoenix. DT Atlanta blows compared to all of them and it's not even close. Even Miami and Houston have made significant strides over the last decade. Like Jax, DT Atlanta has good bones and a nice skyline from a distance but could use some life at the pedestrian scale. With that said, you can find multiple places open on weekends in DT Atlanta. That's something that was pretty hard to do in DT Jax before the pandemic.

[JaxJersey-licious]

Yeah there aren't a whole lot of Learnin' from DT ATL articles on this site but from having lived in the area a while ago the core area did seem a bit underwhelming but could part of the problems maybe had something to do with barriers it has physically (75-85 and 20 to the west and south, the Capitol southeast, touristy things like their aquarium and college football HOF taking up tons of space, hilly terrain, and what the fuck is up with their street grid).

But what really takes away a lot of the development oxygen in the room is the growth of Midtown only a couple of miles north which is like a  blank canvas to a developer compared to downtown. Also didn't help to have those newer upscale suburban offerings like in Buckhead, Dunwoody, and Cumberland reducing the need for downtown revitalization projects.

All they have on their side is history.

[thelakelander]

I think you could make that case for any large city. For example, in Miami-Dade alone, there's also South Beach, Coconut Grove, Coral Gables, Brickell, Little Havana, Design District, Wynwood, etc. in addition to downtown. Yet all, continue to make significant strides, despite the urban core being carved up with 1960s era expressways. Houston doesn't even have zoning in a traditional sense, but there's growth all over that place......and in downtown despite elevated expressways forming a beltway around it. The largest difference I can see between Atlanta and some of those other places is urban core density. For whatever reason, Atlanta is doesn't have it in comparison with many of the other places on that list.

[Steve]

I've been to all of these except for Phoenix. DT Atlanta blows compared to all of them and it's not even close. Even Miami and Houston have made significant strides over the last decade. Like Jax, DT Atlanta has good bones and a nice skyline from a distance but could use some life at the pedestrian scale. With that said, you can find multiple places open on weekends in DT Atlanta. That's something that was pretty hard to do in DT Jax before the pandemic.

I feel like the one thing keeping those places open are the hotels and tourism. Largely for conventions, DT Atlanta does have a decent collection of hotels down there.

[jaxjags]

Based on living in ATL for a decade to me the pedestrian friendly area with shopping, restaurants, parks, etc. is Midtown. This is a part of the ATL DT as the Southbank or Brooklyn would be to JAX. But as to DT proper, not really: Cooperate towers, parking garages and hotels.

[ProjectMaximus]

In some ways this is just semantics right? I mean if we were labeling from scratch today (so disregarding history), Midtown ATL could easily be called downtown, or at least one section of downtown. So this is simply the rise and fall of various sections of a CBD.

From:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/marketurbanismreport/?ref=share

Ha I'm in that group and so is Kerry. Saw the post this morning as well.

[dp8541]

In some ways this is just semantics right? I mean if we were labeling from scratch today (so disregarding history), Midtown ATL could easily be called downtown, or at least one section of downtown. So this is simply the rise and fall of various sections of a CBD.

From:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/marketurbanismreport/?ref=share

Ha I'm in that group and so is Kerry. Saw the post this morning as well.

Small world - the guy that runs that site was on my football team in high school

[bl8jaxnative]

I read a short list of complaints/problems about Atlanta's Downtown that sound as if they could be about Jacksonville's Downtown, which I found interesting. Strange to think very different cities are percived to have very similar issues. I guess the only difference is scale...

"I've never seen a city where downtown is as underwhelming relative to the rest of the city than Atlanta.

More visible homelessness in this downtown than any other besides LA/SF. Atlanta was named America's most unequal city due to its large underclass, and that's reflected here.

Downtown has more parking lots with no apparent commercial use, getting overrun by weeds, than any other downtown I've seen.

It has competition from nearby similar business centers, namely Midtown, which houses the uber-luxury typically found in most CBDs."


From:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/marketurbanismreport/?ref=share

With all do respect those complaints are hardly anything beyond momentary, knee jerk comments.  Those are not research based claims.