Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development

[Kerry]

I gotta believe the JEA fiasco threw a monkey wrench into the plans.

[Ken_FSU]

...or the Jags wanted to announce two games in London before the Lot J deal closed.

For a multitude of reasons.

[FlaBoy]

Well, my point really was that comparing the MSAs of relatively isolated cities like Jacksonville, OKC, Salt Lake City, Indy, etc... to cities like Tampa, Miami, San Jose, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh really isn't a good comparison.  Cities in that second group are really part of megaopolis' that span hundred of miles and the size of their MSAs is limited by adjacent MSAs.

Jax is really going to grow into the megalopolis of the Orlando Metro. St Johns and Flagler Counties are going to grow together sooner than later. Volusia County is going to grow wildly especially in Deland nearer Orlando. Likewise, as Clay and Baker grows, you will probably see bleeding into Lake City/Gainesville.

[Kerry]

There is a crap load of vacant land between here and Daytona to fill in.

[thelakelander]

Much of it is wet, environmentally sensitive and will never be filled in with sprawl. Nevertheless, Jax is no where close to being as isolated as places like OKC and Salt Lake City. Florida is pretty dense for a state.

[Ken_FSU]

Just quickly appreciating the fact that the Gate River Run was re-routed for the first time in over 40 years because of the Hart Bridge Ramp demolition and, with three days to go, there's zero sign of any imminent work.

Welcome to Rockville 2020 would have taken place in eight weeks at the sports complex, if not for said Hart Bridge/Lot J construction that has yet to materialize.

[MusicMan]

That's a shame. Welcome to Rockville and the Hart Bridge Demolition could happen simultaneously and that would be Sold Out!

[Bativac]

Maybe the Mayor is having a hard time coming up with the $25 million for the bridge ramps demo? Seems like kind of a waste of transportation grant money but what do I know, I'm an out of towner. Is there any talk about this in town? Most of my family doesn't know much about it, the few friends I have still in town are not fans of the idea but have kind of thrown their hands up at this point.

[jaxlongtimer]

I do not support tearing down the Hart Bridge ramps.  That aside, they should not be torn down unless Lot J is assured and that seems to be more questionable than not, especially after the Mayor's JEA fiasco and the Jags recent comments and second London game undermining public feelings toward Shad getting handouts from the taxpayers. 

$233 million for Lot J plus almost $50 million for the Hart Bridge plus some $40 million or more for the Bay Street "Innovation" Corridor and autonomous vehicles to benefit the Stadium District adds up to well over $320 million that this City could desperately use in so many better places that would benefit far more than one billionaire living outside the City.

[Papa33]

Just quickly appreciating the fact that the Gate River Run was re-routed for the first time in over 40 years because of the Hart Bridge Ramp demolition and, with three days to go, there's zero sign of any imminent work.

Welcome to Rockville 2020 would have taken place in eight weeks at the sports complex, if not for said Hart Bridge/Lot J construction that has yet to materialize.

Well . . . I think I saw some "work" this am.  Looked like three city workers and an excavator removing tree (or trees) near the Adams Street Station in what I believe is Lot E, along the Hart Ramp.  If its connected to the Hart Ramp removal, then it looks like the city is trying to pinch pennies.

[thelakelander]

So maybe by 2040 this will actually get built? That's the most realistic information I've seen on this project to date...and it's highly optimistic based on the speed of things so far.

[Ken_FSU]

^Weird, I posted this same link this morning and it's totally vanished.

So, the office component being punted to Phase II is officially confirmed.

Phase I would now consist of the Live Arena, a hotel, and two low-rise residential buildings.

The article notes 200 units, which is strange, because I know for the fact that the Jags as recently as last week have been selling the city on 415 units.

I've got two strong opinions on this:

1) This is a much better, more market-appropriate development with the changes. There's plenty of room to expand if it's successful, and I like how they're holding off on the office component until they've locked in an end user.

2) What Cordish is now proposing breaches the existing term sheet for Lot J, and there's no way we should pony up $233 million for low-rise residential, a hotel, and Jacksonville Live.

The outlined scope has clearly changed (items 2 and 4 are gone, and item 5 will likely be scaled back as the result of the changes)



And the changes proposed fall outside of the allowable project deviations:



Because of the way the incentives are structured, however, I worry that the hard cash will remain as is, and the REV grant would just go down a bit.

So, the city will be paying for all the infrastructure, environmental remediation, and parking ($93 million). Minus the buildings themselves, we're basically building out the surrounding environment for the Jags. That's fine, if not ideal. Additionally, the city is also paying $50 million for their half of the $100 million Jacksonville Live! Arena. If Live! costs less than that (Daily's Place cost $44.8 million total to construct, for reference), the city's money will go into other private portions of the project. Additionally, we're giving the Jags/Cordish another $66 million as a development grant to do with what they please.





Sure feels like the Jags/Cordish could conceivably build out a very large portion of the newly-proposed private residential/hotel development at the taxypayer's expense.

Surely a world-class developer like Cordish and an NFL owner/multi-billionaire should be able to jointly cover low-rise residential and a 200-room hotel - when the city is building EVERYTHING else - without needing to take $66 million more from the city coffers.

Kill the development grant, lower the REV, and I think we're in a much fairer place versus what's proposed.

[CityLife]

Interesting that the number of residential units is 200. I've been told several times (including last week) that the absolute minimum number of multi-family units that many lenders will consider investment grade is 200.

So Phase 1 of Lot J will essentially have the bare minimum number of multi-family units to get lending from many large institutions. Not exactly going above and beyond for that huge incentive package...

[Bill Hoff]

So maybe by 2040 this will actually get built? That's the most realistic information I've seen on this project to date...and it's highly optimistic based on the speed of things so far.

You'll likely still be alive, so what are you complaining about?

[CityLife]

I've got two strong opinions on this:

1) This is a much better, more market-appropriate development with the changes. There's plenty of room to expand if it's successful, and I like how they're holding off on the office component until they've locked in an end user.

There's no market demand for spec Class A office space in DT Jax. The office component was always going to have to be build to suit for a new corporate relocation, regional office, or (cough, cough) local utility HQ type user. Khan has had years to try to lure one here (in a great economy and a fantastic relocation market due to SALT limitations) and appears he has still not succeeded. I've always held the opinion that Lot J/Shipyards only works with Khan bringing in a major office user. That fact that he apparently still hasn't lined anything up is terrible news.