New Bridge?

[acme54321]

Raising (which really pretty much means rebuilding) the Dames Point 50' higher?

Wouldn't it be easier to just dredge another 50' out of the channel below?

Not sure if serious.  I hope not serious...

[jaxjaguar]

Now that sunpass has been implemented in Jax you could use that and bonds to shift the traffic pattern. The Hart still has some life in it, so we could use the revenue to build a better wider bridge with pedestrian and cycle lanes where the Mathews is now, in the future.

Sure it would be crazy expensive, but the Mathews and Hart are going to need to be replaced eventually. If they were properly redone now, so that larger ships could access downtown you can give the sports district an additional revenue stream during the off seasons. The problem with thinking "this will cost 5-10 billion" is that 30 years from now that won't matter. The additional revenue that could be generated + inflation would make the price moot. Jacksonville is perpetually stuck in a state of stagnation do to being slow to capitalize on  development booms, low interest rates and destroying things with now replacement lined up.

I'm not saying this is the best use of that amount of money, I'm just staying on the topic of new bridges . Regardless, you've gotta spend money to make money... But don't spend it knocking down buildings to create giant parking lots lol.

[Charles Hunter]

Any politician recommending, or even suggesting, putting tolls on the Hart or Mathews Bridges would lead to bringing back the tradition of tar and feathers.  I will have to do some research, but I recall seeing recently that toll roads take many years before they do any more than cover the debt service (interest) on the bonds sold to finance the construction. The article was from the Miami area, where they are complaining that their toll roads (Turnpike) are paid for, and the 'profit' is going to new toll roads in north Florida.   Also, it is unlikely the tolls on the Express Lanes on I-295 will ever reach that milestone.

[Steve]

Also, it is unlikely the tolls on the Express Lanes on I-295 will ever reach that milestone.

SERIOUSLY. I drive 295 in this section nearly every morning. If they $0.50/car, There's no way they more than a couple hundred bucks a day. Tops.

I contend they could have just added the extra lane between Old St Augustine and 95, called it a day, and it would work just as well. No way the few cars that use these lanes is worth the expense of building.

[Charles Hunter]

From talking to folks at FDOT, their policy at the time was that any new lanes on Interstates had to have tolls. Under the new Governor, just the opposite, new lanes are to be free.  So, we will have new lanes with tolls between the Buckman Bridge and I-95, then between SR 9B and UNF; then all future new lanes will be free (like from UNF to south of the Dames Point Bridge).

[jaxlongtimer]

From talking to folks at FDOT, their policy at the time was that any new lanes on Interstates had to have tolls. Under the new Governor, just the opposite, new lanes are to be free.  So, we will have new lanes with tolls between the Buckman Bridge and I-95, then between SR 9B and UNF; then all future new lanes will be free (like from UNF to south of the Dames Point Bridge).

They should convert the toll lanes to free, too, because I would bet there is a good chance the cost of collecting the tolls is/will exceed the revenue from so doing  .  I am of the opinion the toll lanes where Rick Scott's work around for building roads to support his developer/road builder supporters during the recession when the State was less well off.

What we really should be doing is redirecting the interstate funds more to mass transit and underfunded maintenance/support of non-interstate roads that are falling further and further behind.  If they have any net toll revenue, lets redirect it there too.

There really isn't much room left to expand capacity on the interstates anyway and at some point they are going to have to find a better way to enable the transport of people in this State.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Raising (which really pretty much means rebuilding) the Dames Point 50' higher?

Wouldn't it be easier to just dredge another 50' out of the channel below?

Not sure if serious.  I hope not serious...

[marcuscnelson]

I am of the opinion the toll lanes where Rick Scott's work around for building roads to support his developer/road builder supporters during the recession when the State was less well off.

But of course, what would the construction crews have to do if they weren't building express lanes (other than building the HSR system he cancelled in favor of more roads)?

What we really should be doing is redirecting the interstate funds more to mass transit and underfunded maintenance/support of non-interstate roads that are falling further and further behind.  If they have any net toll revenue, lets redirect it there too.

But that would mean not pouring billions into building toll roads on the west side of the state. We can't have that.

There really isn't much room left to expand capacity on the interstates anyway and at some point they are going to have to find a better way to enable the transport of people in this State.

"Sounds like the next Governor's problem."

- Every FL Governor

[Kerry]

I am kind of "end game" type person.  Where are we going with freeway construction and why not just cut right to the end.

Atlanta has squeezed every last inch of capacity out of their interstate system.  The have express lanes, hov lanes, you can drive on the shoulder during rush-hours, metered on-ramps, variable speed limits, express busses, van shares, car pools, park and rides, and every other conceivable traffic mitigation strategy you can think of, and where has it gotten them?  They have more traffic than ever and a rush hour that last 4 to 5 hours - even on weekends and now they will have to spend untold billions on maintenance and even more on rail because it is their only option left whether they like it or not.

Why follow that model?  Stop the insanity of more roads and just go straight to rail.  One set of rails has more passenger capacity than 15 lanes of interstate.

[Transman]

Rail should not be done until express buses have been used on dedicated lanes.  The state is already losing around $100 million a year on Tri-rail and Sunrail.  Build it they will not come.  That said building more than 10 lanes (5 each way) is pointless.  If you think the road business owns politicians then square it and it's rail or light rail.  MARTA has more employees than the GDOT and loses Millions each year.

Transportation is changing and I'm not sure what the future is if we truly get self-driving cars.  Things will be quite different in 10 years, hopefully, more carpooling and few cars.  You can't build your way out of it and rail is a better graft machine than roadways.

[thelakelander]

Rail should not be done until express buses have been used on dedicated lanes.

Since there are different types of rail serving different types of trips, an express bus on dedicated lanes won't demonstrate much. Also, building dedicated lanes can get just as expensive as some forms of rail. It really depends on what the community desires, the corridor characteristics and what the end game (long term vision) is but rail should be considered when capacity needs and community's quality of life calls for it. 

That said building more than 10 lanes (5 each way) is pointless.  If you think the road business owns politicians then square it and it's rail or light rail.

I am kind of "end game" type person.  Where are we going with freeway construction and why not just cut right to the end.

The road construction business is big business. Until we find another business model to keep feeding those who make a living off of it, we'll keep spending serious tax money on it.

[bl8jaxnative]

Talk about rail's capacity is a red herring.  Rarely do any corridors require high capacity transit.  More so, a long time ago technology improvements have enabled bus service that can handle a million+ trips a day. 

As for rail, I'm not sure what the point of it would be.  Metro JAXes use of transit, like the rest of post WWII sun belt, is anemic.  For example, if you look at USDOT stats, Tampa and Minneapolis have @3 million in their transit areas.   Yet MPLS has 3 times as much transit.  And it's not about sprawl, there's less than a 10 point spead on their sprawl indexes.   

I'd really like to see JTA focus on mobility for the poor and working class. 

[thelakelander]

I'd really like to see JTA focus on mobility for the poor and working class.

Hopefully, this should be a high priority of focus no matter what the mode is, along with integration of supportive land uses. Combined, these create an environment of upward economic mobility and access.