Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020

Started by thelakelander, November 02, 2019, 12:56:45 PM

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thelakelander

#210
October 04, 2020, 07:34:15 PM
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

#212
October 04, 2020, 09:27:55 PM
We're overdue for a new set of renderings. Will be interesting to see how much we're expected to be on the hook for.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

Ken_FSU

#214
October 04, 2020, 09:52:19 PM
It's going to be really interesting to see if stadium improvements are mentioned.

There's been a lot of buzz in the last week about this coming back online in October, potentially as part of a larger package inclusive of upgrades to TIAA Bank field. Seems to be a feeling that Lot J is a done deal. If City Council is there tomorrow for the announcement, it's gotta be at the finish line.

I also don't think it's a coincidence either that Rise closed on the Doro property a few days ago either. Paul Harden is involved with the Rise development, and has also been deeply involved with the Lot J project. Seems logical that Rise might have pulled the trigger once they knew that Lot J was moving forward.

Going to be really interesting to see what the funding mechanism is.

jaxlongtimer

#215
October 04, 2020, 10:27:29 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 04, 2020, 09:52:19 PM
It's going to be really interesting to see if stadium improvements are mentioned.

There's been a lot of buzz in the last week about this coming back online in October, potentially as part of a larger package inclusive of upgrades to TIAA Bank field. Seems to be a feeling that Lot J is a done deal. If City Council is there tomorrow for the announcement, it's gotta be at the finish line.

I also don't think it's a coincidence either that Rise closed on the Doro property a few days ago either. Paul Harden is involved with the Rise development, and has also been deeply involved with the Lot J project. Seems logical that Rise might have pulled the trigger once they knew that Lot J was moving forward.

Going to be really interesting to see what the funding mechanism is.

Sounds like the usual "backroom" dealing.  I didn't think the City Council members could commiserate on an issue without holding a publicly noticed meeting.  If they are collectively in on this already, how did they come together?  Are you telling me the mayor and Harden lobbied them individually and acted as intermediaries for the discussion that they are supposed to have in the public eye?  Hmmm... Nate Monroe may need to investigate this further if that is the case.

Charles Hunter

#216
October 04, 2020, 10:31:56 PM
"acting as intermediaries" among Council member is also a violation of the Sunshine Laws

Ken_FSU

#217
October 04, 2020, 10:37:45 PM
Sounds like no stadium upgrades included in the announcement tomorrow.

Just Lot J.

Per Channel 4, there will be a six week period of review and audit of the proposal by the city.

Also sounds like the public ask will be less than the last round, though no details yet on whether the development itself will be scaled back.

Ken_FSU

#218
October 04, 2020, 10:44:23 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on October 04, 2020, 10:27:29 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 04, 2020, 09:52:19 PM
It's going to be really interesting to see if stadium improvements are mentioned.

There's been a lot of buzz in the last week about this coming back online in October, potentially as part of a larger package inclusive of upgrades to TIAA Bank field. Seems to be a feeling that Lot J is a done deal. If City Council is there tomorrow for the announcement, it's gotta be at the finish line.

I also don't think it's a coincidence either that Rise closed on the Doro property a few days ago either. Paul Harden is involved with the Rise development, and has also been deeply involved with the Lot J project. Seems logical that Rise might have pulled the trigger once they knew that Lot J was moving forward.

Going to be really interesting to see what the funding mechanism is.

Sounds like the usual "backroom" dealing.  I didn't think the City Council members could commiserate on an issue without holding a publicly noticed meeting.  If they are collectively in on this already, how did they come together?  Are you telling me the mayor and Harden lobbied them individually and acted as intermediaries for the discussion that they are supposed to have in the public eye?  Hmmm... Nate Monroe may need to investigate this further if that is the case.

No idea who on city council knows what, besides the fact that several members of City Council are going to be there tomorrow at the press conference.

But talks have been on-again off-again between the DIA and Iguana for over a year now, so I'm sure details have made the rounds like things typically do in this city.

On Harden specifically, didn't say he lobbied anyone, just that it seemed to be a pretty good indicator that Lot J was imminent when Rise closed on the Doro property on Wednesday. Harden represented Rise on the project, and he's represented Iguana throughout the Lot J saga. He pitched JEA on Lot J. He has been heavily involved with the Met Park/Shipyards land swap stuff. Etc. The Rise project makes far less sense in the absence of Lot J.

jaxlongtimer

#219
October 04, 2020, 10:53:13 PM Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 10:57:21 PM by jaxlongtimer
LOL.  When Harden "represents" someone in a project involving elected officials, he is likely being hired to lobby them as much as anything.  Some have referred to him as the 20th City Council member (for those not in the know, we have 19 elected City Council members) because he spends so much time in the City Council's chambers.  And its notable that he is a major contributor and fund raiser for many City Council members.

Ken, with all due respect, I believe you are underestimating how this town works  8).  There are plenty of great attorneys in Jacksonville.  There is a reason so many developers looking for handouts choose him.

vicupstate

#220
October 05, 2020, 04:41:05 AM
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

marcuscnelson

#223
October 05, 2020, 10:27:24 AM
Why would you be scared, Ken?

Afraid of spending millions of taxpayer dollars to subsidize sprawling development to prop up a football team that really shouldn't need it, and at best doesn't deserve it right now?
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

Ken_FSU

#224
October 05, 2020, 11:10:59 AM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on October 05, 2020, 10:27:24 AM
Why would you be scared, Ken?

Afraid of spending millions of taxpayer dollars to subsidize sprawling development to prop up a football team that really shouldn't need it, and at best doesn't deserve it right now?

All jokes aside, I don't hate Lot J, or any of the ancillary development or stadium upgrades, as long as it's tied to a long-term lease extension and a guaranteed floor on the number of home games played in Jacksonville for the life of the lease, and as long as the public has the opportunity to weigh in on it.

It's very, very expensive to be an NFL city in 2020.

The revenue sharing model, for better or worse, demands that we keep up with the rest of the league.

We've got one of the oldest stadiums in the NFL, and a stadium that's routinely ranked as one of the worst in the league.

If we want to remain an NFL city - and there are good arguments to be made on both sides on the value and opportunity cost of remaining an NFL city long-term - we're going to have to open up the piggybank.

The Jags have the fourth oldest stadium in the NFL.

As a reminder, here's what the NFL Stadiums constructed in the last decade have cost:

Allegiant Stadium in Vegas - $1.8 billion
SoFi Stadium in Los Angeles - $5 billion
Mercedes-Benz in Atlanta - $1.6 billion
Vikings Stadium in Minnesota - $1.1 billion
Levi's Stadium in San Fran - $1.3 billion
Metlife Stadium in New York - $1.6 billion
AT&T Stadium in Dallas - $1.2 billion

At minimum, we'd probably be looking at a public contribution of $700 million to $1.2 billion, depending on how much Khan would actually kick in, plus the loss of a complete season during construction, if the Jags demanded a new stadium as a condition of signing a long-term lease extension in the absence of other revenue streams.

To me, that's worst case scenario. Potentially dropping a billion with nothing to show for it except a new stadium that's used 20 times a year.

If the Jags think they can remain competitive from a revenue perspective and are willing to sign a long-term lease extension based on a combination of smaller revenue driving projects in lieu of a full stadium replacement, I think that's actually preferable - again, *if* we think it's worth it as a city to keep the Jags here long-term.

All comes down to deciding as a city how many hundreds of millions of dollars (if any) we're willing to spend to keep the Jags here for another 30 years.

If the number is $1 billion, for example, I'd rather see it be used for lower-cost stadium upgrades and a bunch of surrounding revenue-driving uses that the public can enjoy and that will boost the profile of the sports complex as an event destination, rather than foregoing the ancillary stuff and dumping it all into a new stadium.

Fully understand that others might feel differently, but I think there's a good case to be made for Lot J as long as it's tied to a lease extension/floor on Jacksonville home games. We're going to need to pony up one way or the other, and Jacksonville Live! in particular makes sense for the growth of the sports district and fills a genuine need for more dining and bars in an area that's not easily walkable to the CBD.

Definition of insanity though would be striking a massive deal with Iguana on the project with no protections for the city in place in terms of lease or home games.

Opens us up to be gouged on Phase II, Met Park, or a stadium plan.
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