Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020

[Tacachale]

...and they want to hit the City up for an untold amount for the stadium just as Lot J is finishing construction.  We could literally throw away $300 million on Lot J if we turn around and don't spend whatever the Jags want on a new/upgraded stadium.  Only an idiot would put themselves in that position.

This is a very scary and uncomfortably realistic situation we may find ourselves in.

On the flip side, $300 million for Lot J.. and then 5-8 years later another $500 million in stadium upgrades (which is in the same range of costs associated with Hard Rock Stadium renovations in Miami)... on top of the $400-ish million spent on the stadium and surrounding developments since 1993.... for basically 50 years (initial 30 year lease plus say a 20 year extension) is still VASTLY cheaper than the $1.5 billion being spent on new stadiums nowadays.

Jacksonville has really stretched out their dollars on JMS/Alltell Stadium/Everbank Field/TIAA Bank Field over the last 25 years... including hosting a Super Bowl in 2005. Frankly, in comparison to other NFL cities, there's been a lot of value engineered in these gradual upgrades/maintenance/additions.

This is a great point. There's a pricetag for buying into the major league sports monopolies, and we've come out on the cheaper end of it compared to many.

[jaxlongtimer]

Let see what the final deal is.  Unfortunately, with the City's track record of getting the wrong end of the stick on such deals and ballooning costs that change the deal once the City is stuck with it, I don't have much expectation that reality comes close to what has been promised to date.

As a taxpayer, I expect to be greatly disappointed and taken advantage of.  One would hope, after JEA, deals like this would get a new level of scrutiny by the City Council and others in the community but I will have to see it to believe it.

This is all on top of the inherent risks of the project's success once it is built.  If it fails to deliver, who is left holding the bag?  Add the uncertainties of stadium "improvements" and that the Jags might play less than 6 or 7 games here a year and I am trying to figure out why the taxpayers should put up $233 million (from what source?) for Lot J, especially given that the rest of the City is bleeding from underfunded needs.

By the way, I find it disingenuous when the Jags bemoan the "small" Jacksonville market as such risk was supposedly offset by a sweetheart (i.e. free+) stadium deal.  On this basis, they shouldn't always need that additional "local revenue" because they don't have those higher "local expenses" (see privately built stadiums such as LA).

[Kerry]

Lamping said again that the new agreement will still be 50/50.  That is going to make the City's share about $350 million if true.  We'll probably have to borrow that money.

[marcuscnelson]

Jesus Christ...

There's got to be a point where it just isn't worth it anymore. By the time we pay for Lot J to do nothing for downtown, pay to tear down the Hart ramps, pay to renovate the stadium, pay for the convention center (because of course we will), and then pay for the rest of the Shipyards, we're looking at what, $2 billion? And for what, a team that has failed for two decades to get their shit together? And to top it off, the city doesn't even get the profit?

Where does the buck stop? When do we as a city decide that if this is the cost of an NFL team, especially one that doesn't even win, that it just isn't worth it anymore? For Christ's sake, at least when UF spends $80 million on a football training facility, or a new baseball stadium, we know it's going to a decent team that wins games, and pays its way. I don't go to bed feeling like my tuition is doing nothing but getting people paid to suck.

Like, I understand the idea of civic pride. I love wearing Gator gear in college. The football games have some amazing atmosphere. But at a time when crime is still on the rise, education is in desperate need of funding, and we can't even seem to get the ball rolling on simple improvements that would enormously raise the quality of our urban core, there has to be a point where we stop letting the Jaguars eat our faces.

[marcuscnelson]

First, you can't put a price tag on a community coming together as one to cheer on the Jags ( It helps if you have 'Imagine' playing in the back ground).

I know you're joking, but it turns out we can absolutely put a price tag on that. It's at least a few billion dollars.

Second, we could have a Four Seasons where Con can entertain his 2 & 20 bro's.

So you're saying I should raise that guess to $2.5 billion?

[jaxlongtimer]

Interesting feedback from Jag's season ticket holders in article below.  Looks like a high percentage are ready to jump ship.  Interesting that many cite Lamping's comments about lack of fan support as pissing them off - as much as frustration with the Jags record.  If these diehards are backing down, we could be approaching a point where many here may refuse to support dumping endless taxpayer dollars into Jags-related projects.

https://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20200115/jaguars-fans-sound-off-about-season-tickets-renewals-or-staying-home-in-2020

[Kerry]

Khan is taking some heat for saying there is limited demand for football in Jax and seeking a second game in London....but he isn't wrong.  The Jags don't release gate attendance but they know what it is.  I would have find it again but the highest revenue for a single game by the Jags was way down on the list highest revenue games in the NFL.  Selling out the stadium every Sunday wouldn't solve their funding problem.

[jaxlongtimer]

Khan is taking some heat for saying there is limited demand for football in Jax and seeking a second game in London....but he isn't wrong.  The Jags don't release gate attendance but they know what it is.  I would have find it again but the highest revenue for a single game by the Jags was way down on the list highest revenue games in the NFL.  Selling out the stadium every Sunday wouldn't solve their funding problem.

If selling out the stadium doesn't solve their funding problem, then how did we get a team in the first place?  A sell out is maximum revenue so what didn't they get?  If the ticket and suite prices are not high enough, they had to know, based on cost of living, they were not going to get LA or NY prices in Jacksonville, FL.  At this point, the lack of sell outs or even ability to raise ticket prices relates mostly to the lack of a quality product on the field and, now, apparently, the team management dissing the fans, not the capacity to achieve appropriate revenue goals.

I also will repost my earlier comment that the reason we, as a small market, landed the team in the first place was, knowing we couldn't match the revenue possibilities of larger cities, keeping the expense of being here much lower.  And, note that Kahn, accordingly, paid a much lower price for the Jags than an NFL team in a bigger market would sell for, thus, reducing his investment, and, therefore, his need to get revenues commensurate with the larger markets.  Kahn appears to be a driven businessman, striving to squeeze every last dollar out of his investments.  No surprise there but the community isn't obligated to insure he gets those last dollars.

By the way, I find it disingenuous when the Jags bemoan the "small" Jacksonville market as such risk was supposedly offset by a sweetheart (i.e. free+) stadium deal.  On this basis, they shouldn't always need that additional "local revenue" because they don't have those higher "local expenses" (see privately built stadiums such as LA).

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I expect sales to be challenging unless boating peasants is a larger demographic than I thought. They have teal blood in their veins.

I doubt we're a large enough demographic to keep the team here. 

When I have my tinfoil hat on, this is the slowplay to relocate without breaking the lease, or at least until he can purchase one of the 2 stadiums across the pond, but then I let the teal flow and continue to convince myself that this time it'll work and the team will get better with some continuity. 

But yes, I'll be plopping down my $$$ for the season at some point and time, but unlike other years, I will actually call my tix rep and see what 'free' stuff they're willing to give - because I'm almost willing to give up the 7 games at home so that London, Green Bay and Indianapolis aren't such hits to this peasant's discretionary budget.

[I-10east]

If Jax supposedly isn't 'large enough' for a NFL team, then Tampa Bay, Cincinnati and the LA Chargers (no brainer) aren't 'large enough' either...Don't give me that "Tampa and Cincinnati is larger than Jax" garbage... Those three teams have histories of having ALL AROUND worst attendance than Jacksonville.

I'm sick of Khan's and Lamping's BS; their total impatience in a rapidly growing city, with a awful product on the field is wearing very very thin with me. Their constant whining is creating voids with our diehard fanbase. They want the attendance of the Patriots with an ever-5-11 team year after year. I don't hear any whining from Tampa Bay and Cincinnati, and their attendance is significantly worse than Jax. I'm not feeling the Jags brass right now; they aren't reasonable.

[Kerry]

If Jax supposedly isn't 'large enough' for a NFL team, then Tampa Bay, Cincinnati and the LA Chargers (no brainer) aren't 'large enough' either...Don't give me that "Tampa and Cincinnati is larger than Jax" garbage... Those three teams have histories of having ALL AROUND worst attendance than Jacksonville.

I'm sick of Khan's and Lamping's BS; their total impatience in a rapidly growing city, with a awful product on the field is wearing very very thin with me. Their constant whining is creating voids with our diehard fanbase. They want the attendance of the Patriots with an ever-5-11 team year after year. I don't hear any whining from Tampa Bay and Cincinnati, and their attendance is significantly worse than Jax. I'm not feeling the Jags brass right now; they aren't reasonable.

It probably has to do with TV viewership and merchandise sales.

[JaxAvondale]

Khan is taking some heat for saying there is limited demand for football in Jax and seeking a second game in London....but he isn't wrong.  The Jags don't release gate attendance but they know what it is.  I would have find it again but the highest revenue for a single game by the Jags was way down on the list highest revenue games in the NFL.  Selling out the stadium every Sunday wouldn't solve their funding problem.

Ticket revenue is shared among the league and players. Only luxury suite revenue is kept by the team.

[JaxAvondale]

My guess is that the Jags should have a second game in London and think that is good for all parties involve. Heck, I would add a preseason game in London as well.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

My guess is that the Jags should have a second game in London and think that is good for all parties involve. Heck, I would add a preseason game in London as well.

I'm all for it, but the biggest discussion that I'm seeing from a lot of the diehards on SM - Why bother paying $1500 per season when you're only getting 7 real games (possibly 6) when you can get better seats from the secondary market?

$150/seat isn't horrible, but when you really figure it's $215/seat, the wasted money starts adding up - especially when you can get into the lower bowl for ~$50 on the secondary (+fees) on game days.  It's a legit problem and I don't think winning is going to cure much.

Once more of the diehards start sitting home on Sundays and realize that they enjoy the game a helluva lot more from their 80" flatscreen in the AC, then getting them to come back to the stadium becomes a monumental task above and beyond winning some games.

Was hoping that comment wouldn't be wasted. Nice to see you're paying attention

[heights unknown]

Either sell the team to a new owner that cares about the city and the football team (Tom Coughlin?), or move the damn team to Orlando; I think they'd do good down there (change the name to the FLORIDA JAGUARS).