Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020

[Josh]

How timely

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200114/jaguars-president-says-talks-with-city-close-to-deal-for-700-million-lot-j-development

[Kerry]

Here is why I am skeptical:

Clay Bennett had no intention of building a new arena in Seattle.  He wanted to move the Sonics to OKC from the beginning so he made a proposal that he knew would never get approved.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/sonics-owner-unveils-model-for-proposed-renton-venue/

Khan is already trying to secure a second home game in London starting next season, and the NFL wants that also because they want a team in London.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/nfl-london-games-2020-uk-franchise

https://www.jaguars.com/news/khan-talks-business-lot-j-london-more

Honestly, I'm surprised the comments from Khan in the last article did just kill the whole thing dead in and of itself.

What's driven this for us is we want to give the community a different experience," Khan said. "Obviously football ... there is a limited demand for it. That's why we're playing the games here in London -- that the community can't support selling out eight games, so maybe there's something else we can do there for the hot-dog vendors, the hotel rooms, all the stakeholders who make a living off the game."

"If we are playing a game away, we want to have one mega-experience. That kind of makes up for that from our viewpoint. If we're playing more than one, we would want to have a couple or more."

[Kerry]

How timely

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200114/jaguars-president-says-talks-with-city-close-to-deal-for-700-million-lot-j-development

Very interesting read.

[Ken_FSU]

Interesting that the project cost has shot up by 40% in the last couple of months (from $500 million to $700 million).

Pretty sure the term sheet previously released was based on a $500 million project, with the city paying roughly half, as it typically has with these joint ventures with the Jags ($233 million).

I wonder if that $233 million is going to end up being north of $300 million based on the new estimates.

[Kerry]

Not only that, but confirmation that the Jags are looking to have two home games in London and they want to hit the City up for an untold amount for the stadium just as Lot J is finishing construction.  We could literally throw away $300 million on Lot J if we turn around and don't spend whatever the Jags want on a new/upgraded stadium.  Only an idiot would put themselves in that position.

As for the price increase - it is the Seattle Sonics strategy.  When the State, County, and City finally said No, team owners were wanting a $700 million stadium project.  Then Bennett and Company said, "Well, we tried." and moved the team to OKC.

[thelakelander]

So basically nothing much has changed since last summer when Curry announced that a deal had been worked out between him and Iguana. Whenever they actually finish this agreement, it will then go to the DIA for approval and then council. Anything going vertical would eventually have to go before the DDRB and have to undergo it's own permitting process. All this means is no way in hell is anything breaking ground this spring, unless COJ spending money to begin cleaning contamination on the site is counted as "breaking ground". I wouldn't get my hopes up that anything will be completed and open by the time Curry's term is up.

[Kerry]

So basically nothing much has changed since last summer when Curry announced that a deal had been worked out between him and Iguana. Whenever they actually finish this agreement, it will then go to the DIA for approval and then council. Anything going vertical would eventually have to go before the DDRB and have to undergo it's own permitting process. All this means is no way in hell is anything breaking ground this spring, unless COJ spending money to begin cleaning contamination on the site is counted as "breaking ground". I wouldn't get my hopes up that anything will be completed and open by the time Curry's term is up.

Thanks.  I was wondering if the financial package agreement would have to be different than the actual building permit process.  Lamping said he wanted the whole deal done as one package so I wasn't sure what that meant.  They can't delay too long because the Jags said they wanted Lot J open BEFORE they start stadium negotiations, and they wanted those negotiations wrapped up 4 years before the lease expires.

In July 2019 they said the Mayor's office and the Jags reached an agreement.  Now they are saying that was just a tentative agreement and this is the real one.  As noted earlier, the price went from $450 million to $700 million in just over 5 months.

[RiversideRambler]

...and they want to hit the City up for an untold amount for the stadium just as Lot J is finishing construction.  We could literally throw away $300 million on Lot J if we turn around and don't spend whatever the Jags want on a new/upgraded stadium.  Only an idiot would put themselves in that position.

This is a very scary and uncomfortably realistic situation we may find ourselves in.

[fieldafm]

In July 2019 they said the Mayor's office and the Jags reached an agreement.  Now they are saying that was just a tentative agreement and this is the real one. 

You sure do read things as you wish they were.  Quotes from the links you posted earlier:

"It's hard to speculate when something might happen. We're having very positive discussions now with the mayor's office, and I attribute that to our shared goals and vision for Downtown Jacksonville,"

Hughes said representatives from the mayor's office and the Jaguars are in conversations and "nothing is on paper."

"The team is hammering out a development agreement right now, they're conversing to get something we can bring forward," Curry said.

Three months ago, Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry announced a tentative deal

Khan cautioned it's "a journey of many steps. I think it's a critical step, but there's no magic silver bullet."

Again, you've concluded the Jags are gone after 2020... and that the Hart Bridge removal has no funding... and that Lot J was dead because JEA chose the Ryan Companies to build at a City-owned lot along Adams Street... so why care about facts now?

[Kerry]

...and they want to hit the City up for an untold amount for the stadium just as Lot J is finishing construction.  We could literally throw away $300 million on Lot J if we turn around and don't spend whatever the Jags want on a new/upgraded stadium.  Only an idiot would put themselves in that position.

This is a very scary and uncomfortably realistic situation we may find ourselves in.

And what choice would we have but to pay it?

We are sort of in that boat now with Daily's Place and the practice field.  If the Jags leave we are stuck with a non-revenue generating practice facility but have to give profits from Daily's Place to the Jags forever.  This couldn't be more f-ed up if the City tried.

We should had a clause to the Lot J development agreement that says if the Jags leave town all partnership properties revert to 100% city ownership.  Since the Jags said they aren't leaving it shouldn't be a problem.

[fieldafm]

...and they want to hit the City up for an untold amount for the stadium just as Lot J is finishing construction.  We could literally throw away $300 million on Lot J if we turn around and don't spend whatever the Jags want on a new/upgraded stadium.  Only an idiot would put themselves in that position.

This is a very scary and uncomfortably realistic situation we may find ourselves in.

On the flip side, $300 million for Lot J.. and then 5-8 years later another $500 million in stadium upgrades (which is in the same range of costs associated with Hard Rock Stadium renovations in Miami)... on top of the $400-ish million spent on the stadium and surrounding developments since 1993.... for basically 50 years (initial 30 year lease plus say a 20 year extension) is still VASTLY cheaper than the $1.5 billion being spent on new stadiums nowadays.

Jacksonville has really stretched out their dollars on JMS/Alltell Stadium/Everbank Field/TIAA Bank Field over the last 25 years... including hosting a Super Bowl in 2005. Frankly, in comparison to other NFL cities, there's been a lot of value engineered in these gradual upgrades/maintenance/additions.

[Peter Griffin]

Again, you've concluded the Jags are gone after 2020... and that the Hart Bridge removal has no funding... and that Lot J was dead because JEA chose the Ryan Companies to build at a City-owned lot along Adams Street... so why care about facts now?

It all gets so tiring... it's like banging your head against the wall and expecting the wall to agree with you about a project being built, but just when it seems like it's gonna give way it asks you about how the soil survey is coming along.

[Kerry]

In July 2019 they said the Mayor's office and the Jags reached an agreement.  Now they are saying that was just a tentative agreement and this is the real one. 

You sure do read things as you wish they were.  Quotes from the links you posted earlier:

"It's hard to speculate when something might happen. We're having very positive discussions now with the mayor's office, and I attribute that to our shared goals and vision for Downtown Jacksonville,"

Hughes said representatives from the mayor's office and the Jaguars are in conversations and "nothing is on paper."

"The team is hammering out a development agreement right now, they're conversing to get something we can bring forward," Curry said.

Three months ago, Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry announced a tentative deal

Khan cautioned it's "a journey of many steps. I think it's a critical step, but there's no magic silver bullet."

Again, you've concluded the Jags are gone after 2020... and that the Hart Bridge removal has no funding... and that Lot J was dead because JEA chose the Ryan Companies to build at a City-owned lot along Adams Street... so why care about facts now?

Please identify what I got wrong.  In July the City and Khan did announce they reached an agreement.

July 31, 2019
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-jaguars-owner-reach-incentives-deal-on-dollar450-million-lot-j-development

The city has reached a deal with Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan and his investment company, Iguana Investments Florida LLC, to help finance a more than $450 million development in Lot J near TIAA Bank Field.

Mayor Lenny Curry announced the agreement Wednesday in a video address posted to the city's social media platforms. Negotiators for Khan and Curry have been working on the deal since Jaguars and Iguana President Mark Lamping unveiled the latest plans for Lot J in April.

Jan 14, 2020
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200114/jaguars-president-says-talks-with-city-close-to-deal-for-700-million-lot-j-development

Jaguars President Mark Lamping said negotiations with mayor's office are close to finalizing a proposed deal for Lot J development. Lamping said he hopes ground-breaking could occur in the spring.

Jaguars President Mark Lamping said negotiations with the city on a development deal for Lot J next to the stadium are "very close" to finalizing a deal that could go to City Council with an eye toward ground-breaking in the spring.

Last July, Mayor Lenny Curry announced a financial framework for a development deal for the city to pay up to $233.3 million, including $208.3 million in hard money, for its share of the cost of building a miniature urban neighborhood anchored by an entertainment district.

...

Lamping said the financial framework announced by Curry last July was a starting point for talks on hammering out a full development deal.

[Peter Griffin]

I think the whole thing got canceled as soon as JEA didn't pick Lot J.

This is probably the biggest thing you got wrong today, and reiterated it over and over again

[Kerry]

I think the whole thing got canceled as soon as JEA didn't pick Lot J.

This is probably the biggest thing you got wrong today, and reiterated it over and over again

Don't be mad.  Hells Bells - the Jags and City announced today they are inches away from a $700 million downtown project.  You should be as happy as a puppy with two peters.  Jags fans should literally be dancing in the streets.