Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020

[Steve]

Cities that don't have a Four Seasons: Charlotte, Nashville, Tampa, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Portland, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Columbus, and a few other similar cities to Jax. I don't think Downtown can sustain Four Seasons rates without heavy discounts/incentives from Khan himself to Four Seasons.

So the City and its residents would be subsidizing Khan so that he could subsequently subsidize a Four Seasons, all in order to satisfy the overwhelming demand from the high end out of town executive market. Is Khan trying to build a fake City to try to trick people into coming here, or actually develop something sustainable?

You're right that many cities don't have a Four Seasons, and further, many cities don't have a true 5 Star Hotel Downtown. Charlotte does have a 5 Star property (Ritz-Carlton), but all of those cities have a pretty strong market of 4 Star hotels. The Star Rating is a little subjective as the Hyatt Regency downtown is considered by some to be a 4 Star, which is a little generous. It's a nice property, but not on the level of a JW Marriott or something like that.

Now, I think you are correct in that you can't just build a downtown 5 Star hotel and expect it to be jammed full. Save for resort properties (where you have the spa, golf course, etc. and have a natural draw like the ocean) most places can't do that. The core issue isn't the hotel. The core issue is the fact that the downtown isn't in the shape to draw the demand to the 5 star hotel. Charlotte for example likely sustains the Ritz in part because of the significant corporate banking presence there.

I truly believe the Convention Center would help, and I always have. Large corporate conventions generally have some demand for a high end hotel for corporate CEOs that may be speaking/attending, VIP Keynotes, someone who works for a company that doesn't care about expense reports, etc. So, if the city and Khan do the convention center by the stadium (which I believe is a mistake but it could still work) and include two hotels (a larger one in the Hyatt realm and a smaller luxury property), It could work.

Now, will it help the core of downtown? Some. Will it have the same impact as a convention center in the core? Nope.

[Kerry]

But she also expressed concern about Khan's criticism of Jacksonville's hotel industry.

Khan had said, "Right now, the decision-makers, the influencers want to come to Jacksonville for business and get the hell out of there. It's bad for the image, and it's bad for business," according WJCT News partner The Florida Times-Union, which was present for the same media interview.

Khan then relayed a story of an unidentified executive, who he said left Jacksonville unsatisfied with his Jacksonville hotel accommodations.

As part of the Lot J development Khan said he "would like to envision a Four Seasons," the Times-Union quoted the Jaguars owner as saying.

Boyer defended Jacksonville's existing hotel industry.

"I think we have some very nice hotels Downtown. So I'm not nearly as critical of what we have available," she said.

Good for Lori Boyer here.

Hadn't read Shad Khan's full comments before, but man, the optics here are terrible.

The Jacksonville Jaguars, Daily's Place, the Jags practice facility, and likely Lot J* were quite literally built off the back of the city's hoteliers and the bed tax.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Can you imagine how the owner of the Omni, or the Doubletree, or the Hyatt Regency must feel, collecting bed taxes that will potentially be used to prop up a competing hotel(s) for a billionaire who publicly bashed their facilities.

Good times in Jax.

*https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-could-use-hotel-bed-tax-to-fund-deal-lot-j-deal-finance-committee-chair-says

From the link at the bottom of your post.

"It's transformational," Bowman said. "It's not often someone comes knocking at your door saying I want to invest half-a-billion dollars in your city."

I freaking hate these uninformed lying self-serving politicians in City Hall!  Do they think we are stupid?  Khan isn't investing a half billion in anything.  His share is about $200 million of the proposal.

Also, it is practically every month some jackwad proposes some type of 'game changer' for Jax.

[JaGoaT]

Shad is trying to bring some of that London Arab money too the city lol

[heights unknown]

Cities that don't have a Four Seasons: Charlotte, Nashville, Tampa, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Portland, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Columbus, and a few other similar cities to Jax. I don't think Downtown can sustain Four Seasons rates without heavy discounts/incentives from Khan himself to Four Seasons.

So the City and its residents would be subsidizing Khan so that he could subsequently subsidize a Four Seasons, all in order to satisfy the overwhelming demand from the high end out of town executive market. Is Khan trying to build a fake City to try to trick people into coming here, or actually develop something sustainable?

Could be a little of both...yes?

[heights unknown]

Cities that don't have a Four Seasons: Charlotte, Nashville, Tampa, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Portland, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Columbus, and a few other similar cities to Jax. I don't think Downtown can sustain Four Seasons rates without heavy discounts/incentives from Khan himself to Four Seasons.

So the City and its residents would be subsidizing Khan so that he could subsequently subsidize a Four Seasons, all in order to satisfy the overwhelming demand from the high end out of town executive market. Is Khan trying to build a fake City to try to trick people into coming here, or actually develop something sustainable?

You're right that many cities don't have a Four Seasons, and further, many cities don't have a true 5 Star Hotel Downtown. Charlotte does have a 5 Star property (Ritz-Carlton), but all of those cities have a pretty strong market of 4 Star hotels. The Star Rating is a little subjective as the Hyatt Regency downtown is considered by some to be a 4 Star, which is a little generous. It's a nice property, but not on the level of a JW Marriott or something like that.

Now, I think you are correct in that you can't just build a downtown 5 Star hotel and expect it to be jammed full. Save for resort properties (where you have the spa, golf course, etc. and have a natural draw like the ocean) most places can't do that. The core issue isn't the hotel. The core issue is the fact that the downtown isn't in the shape to draw the demand to the 5 star hotel. Charlotte for example likely sustains the Ritz in part because of the significant corporate banking presence there.

I truly believe the Convention Center would help, and I always have. Large corporate conventions generally have some demand for a high end hotel for corporate CEOs that may be speaking/attending, VIP Keynotes, someone who works for a company that doesn't care about expense reports, etc. So, if the city and Khan do the convention center by the stadium (which I believe is a mistake but it could still work) and include two hotels (a larger one in the Hyatt realm and a smaller luxury property), It could work.

Now, will it help the core of downtown? Some. Will it have the same impact as a convention center in the core? Nope.

Maybe THAT'S what Kahn is trying to do and the direction he's going; building the high end hotel and have it primarily supported by the new convention center, in which in my opinion, MUST BE BUILT and built close by Lot J. The high end hotel will have no sustenance in and of itself, and, there is nothing going on in our downtown to even closely justify building such a hotel. So I'll bet (sniff sniff) that they will build a convention center somewhere in that area along with the high end hotel in Lot J.

[heights unknown]

Shad is trying to bring some of that London Arab money too the city lol

And I've heard, and read, that London Arab money is old, sweet, and oh so nice!!! Bring it on!

[Ocklawaha]

A dedicated mass transit link from the core to the Stadium developments al la Milwaukee's Hop Streetcar would quickly transform JAX merging the current core with the Elbow, Shipyards, Lot J etc...  Imagine a direct JRTC-core-Lot J route with a high capacity surface link. Of course JTA thinks they'll do this with tiny 15mph clown cars. Will they ever pull their heads out?

[heights unknown]

A dedicated mass transit link from the core to the Stadium developments al la Milwaukee's Hop Streetcar would quickly transform JAX merging the current core with the Elbow, Shipyards, Lot J etc...  Imagine a direct JRTC-core-Lot J route with a high capacity surface link. Of course JTA thinks they'll do this with tiny 15mph clown cars. Will they ever pull their heads out?

No they won't Ock, and I had forgot about this; even extending the landing would do more good as well; but a mass transit link to Lot J, hopefully, would keep THE "connect" with the true downtown core definitely in check. I agree wholeheartedly!

[heights unknown]

Cities that don't have a Four Seasons: Charlotte, Nashville, Tampa, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Portland, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Columbus, and a few other similar cities to Jax. I don't think Downtown can sustain Four Seasons rates without heavy discounts/incentives from Khan himself to Four Seasons.

So the City and its residents would be subsidizing Khan so that he could subsequently subsidize a Four Seasons, all in order to satisfy the overwhelming demand from the high end out of town executive market. Is Khan trying to build a fake City to try to trick people into coming here, or actually develop something sustainable?

You're right that many cities don't have a Four Seasons, and further, many cities don't have a true 5 Star Hotel Downtown. Charlotte does have a 5 Star property (Ritz-Carlton), but all of those cities have a pretty strong market of 4 Star hotels. The Star Rating is a little subjective as the Hyatt Regency downtown is considered by some to be a 4 Star, which is a little generous. It's a nice property, but not on the level of a JW Marriott or something like that.

Now, I think you are correct in that you can't just build a downtown 5 Star hotel and expect it to be jammed full. Save for resort properties (where you have the spa, golf course, etc. and have a natural draw like the ocean) most places can't do that. The core issue isn't the hotel. The core issue is the fact that the downtown isn't in the shape to draw the demand to the 5 star hotel. Charlotte for example likely sustains the Ritz in part because of the significant corporate banking presence there.

I truly believe the Convention Center would help, and I always have. Large corporate conventions generally have some demand for a high end hotel for corporate CEOs that may be speaking/attending, VIP Keynotes, someone who works for a company that doesn't care about expense reports, etc. So, if the city and Khan do the convention center by the stadium (which I believe is a mistake but it could still work) and include two hotels (a larger one in the Hyatt realm and a smaller luxury property), It could work.

Now, will it help the core of downtown? Some. Will it have the same impact as a convention center in the core? Nope.

In my opinion, I think a Four Seasons in Jacksonville should not be just a hotel; for example, the first 15 floors should be a hotel, the next 20 floors office, and the last 20 floors residential (don't lay into me I am just giving an example); it could be on a lower scale and height with less floors of course. To me, a pure hotel just wouldn't work in Big Jax unless it is built severely low scale (just a few stories and taking up a whole block or blocks .

[Kerry]

A dedicated mass transit link from the core to the Stadium developments al la Milwaukee's Hop Streetcar would quickly transform JAX merging the current core with the Elbow, Shipyards, Lot J etc...  Imagine a direct JRTC-core-Lot J route with a high capacity surface link. Of course JTA thinks they'll do this with tiny 15mph clown cars. Will they ever pull their heads out?

Who exactly would ride this mass transit link?  People aren't going to drive downtown, pay to park in a parking garage, then take a mass transit link the final mile.  They will just drive to their final destination.

[Captain Zissou]

A dedicated mass transit link from the core to the Stadium developments al la Milwaukee's Hop Streetcar would quickly transform JAX merging the current core with the Elbow, Shipyards, Lot J etc...  Imagine a direct JRTC-core-Lot J route with a high capacity surface link. Of course JTA thinks they'll do this with tiny 15mph clown cars. Will they ever pull their heads out?

Who exactly would ride this mass transit link?  People aren't going to drive downtown, pay to park in a parking garage, then take a mass transit link the final mile.  They will just drive to their final destination.

As one of the tens of thousands of people who work downtown, I would take this all the time.  I'd ride it go to Intuition to grab a beer after work, park in my company garage and take this to a game to avoid paying for parking/sitting in traffic, or whatever I damn well please. 

I understand where you're coming from though.  You and Nance just had a lovely steak dinner at the Mandarin Outback Steakhouse and are headed to an Imagine Dragons concert at Daily's.  You just bought a brand new pair of Nike Monarchs, so you don't want those bad boys getting dirty from walking any farther than you absolutely have to and Nance is worried that one of the hoodlums on the mass transit will try to steal her new Pandora bracelet.  Totally understandable that you and your suburban ilk wouldn't want to use this line.

[Tacachale]

^Ok folks, let's take about 20% off there.

[itsfantastic1]

I mean JTA operates a Game Day Shuttle from the Lavilla lots next to the interstate to the stadium, for less than the cost of parking near the stadium. I've taken that plenty of times since it means that I can take the interstates all the way to the lot with little traffic, I can ride in A/C to and from the stadium while people wait in traffic since the buses have some dedicated traffic preference near the congested stadium roads then I get to my car and I'm immediately on the interstate; bypassing most of the street stadium traffic. That takes the same amount of time, if not less, then fighting the traffic leaving the stadium. It also means I can stay until the end of the game too.

[Ken_FSU]

A dedicated mass transit link from the core to the Stadium developments al la Milwaukee's Hop Streetcar would quickly transform JAX merging the current core with the Elbow, Shipyards, Lot J etc...  Imagine a direct JRTC-core-Lot J route with a high capacity surface link. Of course JTA thinks they'll do this with tiny 15mph clown cars. Will they ever pull their heads out?

Who exactly would ride this mass transit link?  People aren't going to drive downtown, pay to park in a parking garage, then take a mass transit link the final mile.  They will just drive to their final destination.

As one of the tens of thousands of people who work downtown, I would take this all the time.  I'd ride it go to Intuition to grab a beer after work, park in my company garage and take this to a game to avoid paying for parking/sitting in traffic, or whatever I damn well please. 

As a fellow downtown worker, I'd kill for a three-mile streetcar running in dedicated space from Five Points to the south, through Brooklyn, past the Landing/Laura Street, down Bay past the Old Courthouse site, through the Shipyards, terminating at the stadium.

Would use it multiple times a week.

If the city is hell bent on spending $200+ million to prop up Lot J, I almost think you need it to give it a shot at viability.

There's no universe where I'd take my car out of the garage, drive down to Lot J, pay to park, and grab lunch or a drink with a client or coworker.

Would happily take dedicated transit though, in the same way I regularly jump on the Skyway to Kings Ave. Station to grab food at Bearded Pig or V Pizza.

[Kerry]

I lived in downtown Jax for 3 years - there aren't enough downtown residents and workers headed to anything that will ever be at Lot J to justify that expense.

If we are going to spend money on a streetcar then a line from the new transit hub/convention center to Brooklyn, 5-Points, and King St should be at the top of the list.

Alas, JTA can't even get a bikeshare system up and running so if you guys want to fantasize about taking some kind train/tram to Lot J have at it. It's never going to happen.