The Ford on Bay

[marcuscnelson]

Am I missing something? Has a design been published? I thought everything was under wraps for a few days yet.

I think they mean the design for the apartments in Tampa.

[vicupstate]

Am I missing something? Has a design been published? I thought everything was under wraps for a few days yet.

I think they mean the design for the apartments in Tampa.

Ah. Makes sense.

[tufsu1]

^ correct. I was referring to the downtown Tampa apartments.

On another note, this year's World of Nations festival will take place at the Ford on Bay - get excited!!!

[marcuscnelson]

On another note, this year's World of Nations festival will take place at the Ford on Bay - get excited!!!

Wow! Completely trucked-in and temporary infrastructure! Portable toilets and those assembled stages! Whoo-hoo!

[Ken_FSU]

From the JBJ.

Boyer thinks the Hyatt's right of first refusal may have scared off potential bidders.

Despite having only two formal bids, Boyer told the Business Journal she was more optimistic about the Landing than might be suggested by the number of bids for the Ford on Bay.

The reasons: The strength of those who did bid, the interest in the property pre-bid and a unique situation that may have dampened interest.

The three parcels comprising the Ford on Bay neighbor the Hyatt Regency Jacksonville Riverfront, and the hotel has first right of refusal, which means it can decide to buy them even after a bidder is selected. Boyer said she received interest from a lot of developers prior to the release of the request for proposals, which disclosed the Hyatt's right of first refusal.

"I think the Hyatt's first right of refusal had a chilling effect," Boyer said. "It's a lot of effort to go through if the Hyatt can just take it away at the end of the day."

Full (paywalled) article: https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2020/02/03/only-two-companies-bid-for-former-courthouse-site.html?iana=hpmvp_jac_news_headline

[thelakelander]

Hmm. So either the Hyatt has Shad Khan convention center RFP type power, past RFP failures played a negative role or the RFP had requirements many considered not being worth the risk. I can't wait to see what the two proposals are. I also wonder if the Hyatt may have some affiliation with the unsolicited convention center bid?

[Ken_FSU]

I also wonder if the Hyatt may have some affiliation with the unsolicited convention center bid?

Hyatt was affiliated with Jacobs' original $600 million convention center bid last fall.

More specifically, the owners of Hyatt Regency Waterfront (Westmont Hospitality Group) partnered with Jacobs on the proposal.

I don't think it was ever explicit, but there were implications that right-of-first-refusal might be exercised by Hyatt if the Jacobs plan wasn't chosen.

Even though Jacobs got burnt by the city - they literally brought a team of 30 to their presentation - they invested a ton of money into their proposal. Who knows, maybe the unsolicited convention center bid is a scaled down, more affordable variant of the original Jacobs/Hyatt plan.

Of the other two firms who originally put in a convention center bid, it likely isn't Rimrock Devlin (unless they broke rank with Iguana).

Leaves Jacobs, Preston Hollow, or a new entity who didn't originally bid last year.

[120North]

I also wonder if the Hyatt may have some affiliation with the unsolicited convention center bid?

Hyatt was affiliated with Jacobs' original $600 million convention center bid last fall.

More specifically, the owners of Hyatt Regency Waterfront (Westmont Hospitality Group) partnered with Jacobs on the proposal.

I don't think it was ever explicit, but there were implications that right-of-first-refusal might be exercised by Hyatt if the Jacobs plan wasn't chosen.

Even though Jacobs got burnt by the city - they literally brought a team of 30 to their presentation - they invested a ton of money into their proposal. Who knows, maybe the unsolicited convention center bid is a scaled down, more affordable variant of the original Jacobs/Hyatt plan.

Of the other two firms who originally put in a convention center bid, it likely isn't Rimrock Devlin (unless they broke rank with Iguana).

Leaves Jacobs, Preston Hollow, or a new entity who didn't originally bid last year.

You are on the right track I do believe.  Not sure about Hyatt involvement, but I think you are dead on with regards to the scope/scale and proposer of the revised CC offer.

[Ken_FSU]

Spandrel's proposal looks to be Vestcor-looking low-rise apartment buildings (maybe four floors).

Market-appropriate perhaps, but certainly not game changing.

[Peter Griffin]

Spandrel's proposal looks to be Vestcor-looking low-rise apartment buildings (maybe four floors).

Market-appropriate perhaps, but certainly not game changing.

We don't need game-changing

More residents are a good thing, an apartment complex downtown is a good thing.

[thelakelander]

Give Spandrel a deal for another vacant city owned site and let them put their low rise, stick frame apartments there.

[Ken_FSU]

An apartment complex downtown is a good thing.

In a vacuum, I totally agree.

On this prime riverfront plot, after more than five years and $40 million in demolition and site work, and after shelving a convention center plan, and after a national search by CBRE, I disagree.

With the qualifier that I've only seen a couple of renders of the residential and don't know if there's some kind of major retail component I'm missing, there are literally a hundred vacant spots downtown where something like this could go.

Hopefully there's something I'm missing, OR hopefully Related brings something denser and more location-appropriate to the table.

[FlaBoy]

At the old Courthouse site, it actually makes Bay St. a lot more appealing with the grassy lot opening to the water. As a result, I think you can be picky with the site. The big mistake was knocking down a historic and dense building in old City Hall. That site needs to be retail focused and if this is going to be your big nightlife destination, apartments are not a good idea right on Bay St a floor or two up.

Other than the Shipyards, there aren't really many large city owned properties on the Northbank within the CBD.

Are there renderings yet?

[Ken_FSU]

Are there renderings yet?

^There should be by mid-afternoon.

[Steve]

Spandrel's proposal looks to be Vestcor-looking low-rise apartment buildings (maybe four floors).

Market-appropriate perhaps, but certainly not game changing.

If Related's proposal is similar, that actually opens the door for the unsolicited convention center proposal. They can certainly cite a number of things to reasonably reject the proposals and not look like they had egg on their face.