Downtown Breaks 5,000 residents

[Ken_FSU]

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190803/downtown-jacksonville-breaks-5000-resident-mark

[thelakelander]

Almost as dense as Wauchula when spread out over 3.9 square miles. Getting to 10,000 will make it closer to Orange Park's density if there's no strategy to cluster density. In other words, things will still be sleepy at 10k if other avenues to compact development don't become a top priority.

[thelakelander]

I'll post a slide from a recent presentation later that compares the numbers of Florida's major downtowns. Nevertheless,  Greater Downtown Miami is 3.8 square miles but it has 92,000 residents and 175,000 workers according to their latest report. West Palm Beach is similiar to DT Jax with 5,900 downtown residents. However, DT West Palm is only 0.75 square miles. We need to be talking density instead of a sprawl based approach if we want vibrant streets, sooner rather than later.

[DTWD_NW904]

Wow, I would've thought the number of people living downtown would've been higher. But then again, Downtown still has a long way to go...

[thelakelander]

[Charles Hunter]

Is the "Downtown" used for the 5,000 number the full DIA area, including Brooklyn, the Sports Complex, and Southbank?

[Tacachale]

Is the "Downtown" used for the 5,000 number the full DIA area, including Brooklyn, the Sports Complex, and Southbank?

Yes.

[Charles Hunter]

Why don't they take a page from local TV stations and include Eastside and Springfield in "Downtown" (whenever there is a crime), and there'd be lots more folks living "downtown".

[jaxjaguar]

Jacksonville's leadership needs to swallow their pride and speak with Orlando's Thomas Chatham Jr. Over the last five years downtown Orlando has drastically increased their downtown housing stock. By the end of this year it will have more than doubled. This major increase catalyzed the spark that has lead to an unprecedented number of developments on the docket for the next few years. We're talking billions of development in the immediate core.

I already have a hard time recognizing the downtown skyline, but in a few years it will be even more grand as there are 7 high rises currently under construction...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jax has torn down more high rises than they've constructed in the last 10 years...

[Kerry]

Is it any surprise that a city's whose sole claim to fame is being "the largest land-area city in the lower 48", also has a sprawling downtown?  The concept of density is about as foreign as it can get.

[Peter Griffin]

I believe there have only been 2 built in the last 20, the Peninsula on the Southbank (residential condos) and the Federal Courthouse (obviously a courthouse)

Midrise construction seems to be the hot deal of the day, and we've got 6 new apartment complexes of that type in the last 5 years. (Lofts at Lavilla, Lofts at Monroe, Lofts at Jefferson, 220 Riverside, RiverHouse, and Vista Brooklyn). These kinda things fit well for Jax, since we don't really have the need for the vertical density since we have so much vacant land in our urban core. Fill it in.

I think a big thing that needs to happen is for the city to stop trying to play landowner/investor/real estate developer. Sell COJ-owned properties to those willing to develop them with realistic projects near the urban core, and let the new owners take care of them.

[CityLife]

To Lakelander's earlier point about WBP and Jax density, Look at this list of recently completed projects, projects under construction, and projects planned in West Palm Beach. Downtown is going to get lapped by the number of stuff under construction in Downtown WPB.

http://wpbgis.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Shortlist/index.html?appid=5d86c10d29764a7b808101c4ab8631b8

And that is in an environment that has far more competitive suburbs (including the SJTC) than Jax in Palm Beach Gardens, Jupiter, Boca, and Delray.

[thelakelander]

I think a big thing that needs to happen is for the city to stop trying to play landowner/investor/real estate developer. Sell COJ-owned properties to those willing to develop them with realistic projects near the urban core, and let the new owners take care of them.

This. Basically, develop your long term vision, modify public policy to facilitate incremental implementation of desired vision, invest in your public spaces and infrastructure, assist in getting a few catalytic sites/projects off the ground in the area that really counts and let the market lead. This can likely be done for a lot less than the amount of hard cash being offered up a mile east.

[thelakelander]

To Lakelander's earlier point about WBP and Jax density, Look at this list of recently completed projects, projects under construction, and projects planned in West Palm Beach. Downtown is going to get lapped by the number of stuff under construction in Downtown WPB.

http://wpbgis.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Shortlist/index.html?appid=5d86c10d29764a7b808101c4ab8631b8

And that is in an environment that has far more competitive suburbs (including the SJTC) than Jax in Palm Beach Gardens, Jupiter, Boca, and Delray.

One thing Jax really should do is kill the excuses for today's conditions and inaccurate assumptions and benchmarks for what's needed to add life and vitality. The 10,000 residents spread across 4 square miles as a benchmark of anything is a bad mistake. Pack those 10,000 residents into one square mile, and that one square mile is alive. Spread it out across 4 square miles and you have a core with the density of present day Orange Park.

So simply hoping people continue to move into random areas of 4 square miles or fully come down to an empty environment to support one random place that maintains inconsistent hours outside of 9-5 weekdays, isn't going to get it done (if vibrant street life at the pedestrian scale is the key).

Understanding and working with the market, along with clustering as much complementing development, programming to spur foot traffic, with a compact setting is what is ultimately needed. Also, don't sleep on all those hotels. Clustering them is just as (or more) important than full time residents. Unlike residents, they those hotel guests are spending money everyday they're there. When designed right, those hotels also can bring the added retail that can serve as a base for places that are open consistently around the clock.

[jaxjaguar]

Now that the Barnett building is nearly completed, has work begun on the trio yet? Is that still a thing? Speaking of creating density, the logical places to start after the trio would be the surface lots next to Jax Center Garage, Burrito Gallery parking lot, Main Street Pocket Park, and the surface lot behind the Omni. Not sure if the City owns any of those, but they're prime spots to spur density.