Are You Okay Investing $233 Million For Lot J?

[Snaketoz]

Kerry, the grass is always greener....If you move to any of the cities you mentioned, you'll be even more bored than you are now.  Other than the college scene in Knoxville, it's a boring place.  I went to school east of there and visited my brother many times before he moved to Oregon.  Boring.  Greenville has made strides, sure, but you can change a small town much easier than a large one.  Chattanooga I don't know much about, but other than Lookout Mountain and a few sights, not much there either.
Jacksonville isn't going to change until we change the people and the leadership.  We are too conservative and complacent. We have a lot of retired military, people who moved here after WW2 to work in the mills, and a mindset that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.  I don't think it will ever change.  When we stop electing good ole boy right wing rednecks things will change.  To be elected to area office, you just have to have a bad haircut, a promise not to raise taxes, and a "R" after your name.  That's the way it is.  Until it changes, I'm hanging here.  I've chased what you seek and have never found it.  I always find my self back in Jax.

[Steve]

I based my comment on the fact that I have never heard of any city/business leaders coming to Jax to learn anything.

I can tell you for a fact that isn't true.

(edit): It could be true that you haven't heard it. It definitely isn't true that it hasn't happened.

[Steve]

Heck, Jax doesn't even use the St. Johns River for anything and we have it.

I'd say the folks at Jaxport could find you some examples that would counter this. I hear we have a cargo port here.

[BridgeTroll]

Heck, Jax doesn't even use the St. Johns River for anything and we have it.

I'd say the folks at Jaxport could find you some examples that would counter this. I hear we have a cargo port here.

Quite a few shipyards too...

[vicupstate]

I have never heard of any city/business leaders coming to Jax to learn anything.

I can think of one thing, consolidation. That was pretty obvious in decades past, but not so much in recent times. Unfortunately, the way JAX has structured its government, the benefits of Consolidation are largely lost when an ineffective mayor is serving, which has been a lot of the time. Power is highly concentrated and needlessly partisan. The council members are too lazy or too chicken shit to provide any balance. The GC certainly does not provide any independence, balance or auditing.   

JAX has a lot to offer from a geographic/climate perspective, and it has decent architecture overall, IMO.  Many neighborhoods are quite appealing. But the things that actually require good ideas, good plans, good execution, effective goverance, etc. those things are largely absent.

I have said a million times that JAX has massive potential and always has. It could be the East coast San Diego, but it is standing in it's own way. What is missing is really not rocket science, which makes it all the more frustrating. It doesn't take a broadly elightened population either, as much as it does elighthened leadership.     

 

[Adam White]

I based my comment on the fact that I have never heard of any city/business leaders coming to Jax to learn anything.  We don't have creative thought leaders that are pioneering anything at the civic level.  If you know of any please share.

No one is coming here to see how to replicate our mass transit system, implement their version of our beaming civic monuments, copy our unique park system, reproduce our creatively funded cultural attractions, implement our innovative parking solutions, mimic our complete street/greenway initiatives, marvel in our urban revitalization success stories, and for sure no one is coming here to study riverfront activation - because we don't have any of those things.

The one thing we do have in ample supply is sprawl and there isn't a City in America that needs assistance with sprawl.

Well, now you're saying something else entirely. Don't take exception with what I posted - it was in response to what you posted. Perhaps you should've been clearer about what you meant?

I've no idea if leaders from other cities visit Jax to get ideas.

[Kerry]

Well crud - I wrote an entire long post only to lose it all while looking up one last piece of data.  Anyhow, let me summarize.

Jacksonville is no more right wing that Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Omaha, Des Moines, Salt Lake City or dozens and dozens of other cities, so that isn't an excuse.  Does our city leadership attend or even have membership in organizations like the US Conference of Mayors or the National League of Cities where all of these topics are discussed and workshops held to help cities figure out solutions?  We don't even have proper representation of the Florida League of City (a council member when most cities have their Mayor).  What the hell are our Civic Leaders doing with all their time?

As for our port, that isn't even in the realm of this discussion unless they are going to open the ports to picnicking families.  We are talking about the public realm here.

[Adam White]

Well crud - I wrote an entire long post only to lose it all while looking up one last piece of data.  Anyhow, let me summarize.

Jacksonville is no more right wing that Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Omaha, Des Moines, Salt Lake City or dozens and dozens of other cities, so that isn't an excuse.  Does our city leadership attend or even have membership in organizations like the US Conference of Mayors or the National League of Cities where all of these topics are discussed and workshops held to help cities figure out solutions?  We don't even have proper representation of the Florida League of City (a council member when most cities have their Mayor).  What the hell are our Civic Leaders doing with all their time?

As for our port, that isn't even in the realm of this discussion unless they are going to open the ports to picnicking families.  We are talking about the public realm here.

Jacksonville has been suffering from a real lack of leadership - and a complete absence of vision - for a very long time. And we have a cynical poplulation, a population that has seen downtown destroyed and has seen projects (Landing, Skyway, etc) fail. It's always going to be hard to convince people that things actually can be successful.

[thelakelander]

^That's why it's important to focus on getting the small things right. Make the Skyway the best 2.5 mile transit system that you can before experimenting with untested low capacity AVs. Get one core city block right and activated at night and weekends before coughing up $233 million in incentives, linked to grand promises that ultimately won't be delivered. We've been there before but keep doing the same expensive things and expecting different outcomes.

[Adam White]

^That's why it's important to focus on getting the small things right. Make the Skyway the best 2.5 mile transit system that you can before experimenting with untested low capacity AVs. Get one core city block right and activated at night and weekends before coughing up $233 million in incentives, linked to grand promises that ultimately won't be delivered. We've been there before but keep doing the same expensive things and expecting different outcomes.

You're preaching to the choir!

[Peter Griffin]

You're preaching to the choir!

That is what this entire forum and website is.

[Kerry]

^That's why it's important to focus on getting the small things right. Make the Skyway the best 2.5 mile transit system that you can before experimenting with untested low capacity AVs. Get one core city block right and activated at night and weekends before coughing up $233 million in incentives, linked to grand promises that ultimately won't be delivered. We've been there before but keep doing the same expensive things and expecting different outcomes.

We have to start a lot earlier in the process than that.  When I met with Vicupstate and Marcus a couple of months ago we looked at where the problem are and discussed some ideas about how to overcome them.  It included endorsing candidates, public education, guerrilla urbanism, running for office ourselves, changing the government structure of Jax, good old fashion community activism (speaking at council meetings and other boards), and a host of other activities that I can't recall right off the top of my head.

Jax is starting from worse than last place.  We are twenty laps down in a race most people don't even know we are in.

[Peter Griffin]

Jax is starting from worse than last place.  We are twenty laps down in a race most people don't even know we are in.

Good lord, dude, are you okay? Jax is no urban metropolis or even a big destination city, but you act as if we're some slumhole rustbelt ghost town with a nuclear waste site in the middle of a leaking toxic waste dump where the children play. What the hell do you want from this world?

[thelakelander]

^That's why it's important to focus on getting the small things right. Make the Skyway the best 2.5 mile transit system that you can before experimenting with untested low capacity AVs. Get one core city block right and activated at night and weekends before coughing up $233 million in incentives, linked to grand promises that ultimately won't be delivered. We've been there before but keep doing the same expensive things and expecting different outcomes.

We have to start a lot earlier in the process than that.  When I met with Vicupstate and Marcus a couple of months ago we looked at where the problem are and discussed some ideas about how to overcome them.  It included endorsing candidates, public education, guerrilla urbanism, running for office ourselves, changing the government structure of Jax, good old fashion community activism (speaking at council meetings and other boards), and a host of other activities that I can't recall right off the top of my head.

Jax is starting from worse than last place.  We are twenty laps down in a race most people don't even know we are in.

IMO, we have to walk and chew gum at the same time, while also understanding in no scenario are we starting from scratch, considering the city has existed for nearly 200 years. Many of the ideas mentioned in your quote have already happened, happening right as we speak and have been for several years. Many of the things that Jax has gotten right, that we enjoy today, are a direct result of these efforts. King Street, the breweries on Main in Springfield, our expanding culinary scene, food trucks, the shared use path across the Fuller Warren, Laura Street's streetscape, etc. are all examples of things like public education, guerrilla urbanism, changing the government structure, good old fashioned community activism, etc. Tap deeper into the local scene. There are a ton of people working to enhance the city's quality of life right now. Nevertheless, we don't need to do all of that before getting JTA to do something basic like operate the Skyway on weekends or convincing the DIA to make it a priority to work with property owners to enhance and better expose existing street level retail.

[thelakelander]

Perfect example of good old fashion community activism happening right here:

At the DIA meeting now. Wasn't thrilled about being the first speaker, but let's see how it goes. So far 5 speakers, all in favor of Johnson.

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,35511.msg494632.html#msg494632