Florida Times-Union: Don’t demolish the Landing before examining adaptive reuse

[avonjax]

Can someone make a list of the demolition that has taken place since Curry has become mayor? Another Ed Austin maybe? The scars will be with us for decades. He sure will change the look of Jacksonville but for the worst.

[Steve]

Can someone make a list of the demolition that has taken place since Curry has become mayor? Another Ed Austin maybe? The scars will be with us for decades. He sure will change the look of Jacksonville but for the worst.

The difference is with Ed Austin, I don't think they "got it" because many cities besides Jacksonville believed demolition was the right thing to do (though many cities had figured it out).

Now, nearly every city understands that demolition for vacant lots doesn't help. We just don't seem to see it.

[Tacachale]

Can someone make a list of the demolition that has taken place since Curry has become mayor? Another Ed Austin maybe? The scars will be with us for decades. He sure will change the look of Jacksonville but for the worst.

The difference is with Ed Austin, I don't think they "got it" because many cities besides Jacksonville believed demolition was the right thing to do (though many cities had figured it out).

Now, nearly every city understands that demolition for vacant lots doesn't help. We just don't seem to see it.

100%. Austin also built and renovated things (TUCPA, St. James Building, the stadium, zoo expansion) and got us the Jaguars.

[KenFSU]

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190701/1-million-jacksonville-landing-demolition-set-for-fall

Good news, the iconic orange roof will be carefully removed and sold for scrap!

[thelakelander]

Lol, so we really don't have a clue. Businesses kicked out over the last month and now downtown is a complete ghost town at night and on weekends. But we at least now know that a RFP to figure out what to do next won't be put out until the end of 2019 at the earliest. The clock is ticking and we're now on the record for looking at a hole of inactivity for at least the rest of 2019.

Btw, they're unilaterally making a decision to limit economic opportunity by razing first with no clue of what really comes next...

As for The Jacksonville Landing, Curry, who started his second term Monday, told reporters the city will put out a request for proposals after the demolition of the Landing at the end of 2019 to determine the Downtown riverfront property's "highest and best use."

The city has contracted with  Plant City-based D.H Griffin Wrecking Co Inc. to demolish the closed shopping center for $1.074 million beginning in September. City officials say the demolition should be complete by the end of December.

The mayor's office has been vague about what will replace the Landing. Curry said he'd like to see a public green space incorporated into a final design, and city Chief Administrative Officer Brian Hughes said in May there will "likely" be at least two developable pads for mixed-use space.

"Contrary to what some have said, I've never suggested that should just be a green space. It's my opinion that part of that should be a green space," Curry said. "That's my opinion at this point. I don't get to unilaterally make that decision, but I'd like to see a piece of green space there and what will the market bear there — what iconic thing can we put there that will serve Jacksonville well."

Full article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/mayor-expect-deal-with-shad-khan-on-lot-j-development-by-end-of-summer

[Tacachale]

Lol, so we really don't have a clue. Businesses kicked out over the last month and now downtown is a complete ghost town at night and on weekends. But we at least now know that a RFP to figure out what to do next won't be put out until the end of 2019 at the earliest. The clock is ticking and we're now on the record for looking at a hole of inactivity for at least the rest of 2019.

Btw, they're unilaterally making a decision to limit economic opportunity by razing first with no clue of what really comes next...

As for The Jacksonville Landing, Curry, who started his second term Monday, told reporters the city will put out a request for proposals after the demolition of the Landing at the end of 2019 to determine the Downtown riverfront property's "highest and best use."

The city has contracted with  Plant City-based D.H Griffin Wrecking Co Inc. to demolish the closed shopping center for $1.074 million beginning in September. City officials say the demolition should be complete by the end of December.

The mayor's office has been vague about what will replace the Landing. Curry said he'd like to see a public green space incorporated into a final design, and city Chief Administrative Officer Brian Hughes said in May there will "likely" be at least two developable pads for mixed-use space.

"Contrary to what some have said, I've never suggested that should just be a green space. It's my opinion that part of that should be a green space," Curry said. "That's my opinion at this point. I don't get to unilaterally make that decision, but I'd like to see a piece of green space there and what will the market bear there — what iconic thing can we put there that will serve Jacksonville well."

Full article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/mayor-expect-deal-with-shad-khan-on-lot-j-development-by-end-of-summer

This quote:

"Contrary to what some have said, I've never suggested that should just be a green space. It's my opinion that part of that should be a green space,"

.

This is literally the only thing the city has suggested for this space, and it's mostly just grass:



And whether the mayor thinks it should be green space, it will be a green space for some time.

[Charles Hunter]

^

"Contrary to what some have said, I've never suggested that should just be a green space. It's my opinion that part of that should be a green space," Curry said.

Look at the drawing again, "part of that" is green space, there are two buildings there. Well, a very large part of it is green space.

And whether the mayor thinks it should be green space, it will be a green space for some time.  Perhaps some green weeds.

You are giving them more credit than I do. I think it will be more brown (dead grass and dirt) than it will be green.

[thelakelander]

It's hard to believe the city put down new sod at the shipyards less than ten years ago. The Landing will be a great place to park and watch an occasional fireworks show without ever getting out of your car.

[Kiva]

^

"Contrary to what some have said, I've never suggested that should just be a green space. It's my opinion that part of that should be a green space," Curry said.

Look at the drawing again, "part of that" is green space, there are two buildings there. Well, a very large part of it is green space.

And whether the mayor thinks it should be green space, it will be a green space for some time.  Perhaps some green weeds.

You are giving them more credit than I do. I think it will be more brown (dead grass and dirt) than it will be green.

Well, our favorite mayor recently said "You will not recognize Downtown in four years." He didn't say it would be better, he just said unrecognizable. Dead grass instead of the Landing counts! https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/currys-next-four-years-mayor-says-hes-going-to-make-downtown-a-destination

[Ken_FSU]

The mayor's office has been vague about what will replace the Landing. Curry said he'd like to see a public green space incorporated into a final design, and city Chief Administrative Officer Brian Hughes said in May there will "likely" be at least two developable pads for mixed-use space.

"Contrary to what some have said, I've never suggested that should just be a green space. It's my opinion that part of that should be a green space," Curry said. "That's my opinion at this point. I don't get to unilaterally make that decision, but I'd like to see a piece of green space there and what will the market bear there — what iconic thing can we put there that will serve Jacksonville well."

So I know there's no plan yet, but I'm a little confused about the above and what we'll actually RFP.

Do you guys get the impression that we'll RFP the entire property for master development, perhaps with a list of requirements similar to the convention center RFP (e.g. X amount of greenspace, x amount of retail, etc.)?

Or will the city define the layout, map out the pads, manage all the greenspace, and just RFP development of the specific pads?

Who determines what the market will bear?

Hopefully not the same people who determined what the market could bear for the convention center RFP.

[thelakelander]

^To me it sounds like you could see two RFP rounds. An initial RFP to help determine highest and best use....similar to what's being done with the courthouse site now....but something a downtown master plan should have addressed years ago. Once that study reveals whatever they want it too, a second RFP will be created to find the entity to do just that. The downfall of this is as witnessed in the past, all responses can be rejected and then you're back to square one. Overall, this entire thing is simply lighting tax money on fire while downtown deals with a self inflicted dead hole in its heart for the years that this unnecessary process will consume.

[Kerry]

"What the market will bear" is code for "don't do anything that will compete with Lot J".

[thelakelander]

Basically the "market will bear" whatever they want it to say in the "highest and best" use RFP they'll create. It's so silly it's 2019 and we're still dealing with this type of foolishness.

If they really wanted to know what the highest and best use would be or cared about public input, they would have worked to get that information before spending $22 million to pay off Sleiman, kicking out 30 existing businesses and razing the place. As a result of not really caring, we're now dealing with a situation where foot traffic in downtown may be at an all time low.....despite two of the largest urban revitalization periods in U.S. history taking place since 2000.

[I-10east]

I'm with everyone saying that hastily demoing the Landing is a huge mistake. The fireworks show last night was bittersweet with it being the last one with the Landing still being there. Our riverfront skyline will look very weird without the Landing.

[sandyshoes]

I-10, I agree with you.  Ok, here's my last shot - and before I get crucified again by a particular poster on this forum, no I am not personally in a financial position to make any of this happen.  That said...everyone bemoans the absence of downtown retail shopping.  How about getting 3 or 4 main retailers (Dillards, Belk, maybe even a Target?) as anchors and see how that does while the parking is worked on.  Gauge the customer flow/peak hours, and see what else is possible.  I say keep it retail, b/c not all restaurants are going to last, as we know - the quality of the product begins to suffer at some point and there we go again, empty real estate.  If you have clothing, etc. that downtown workers especially need, make it easier for them to get to it instead of fighting the traffic back to their neighborhoods and in some cases having to run to a mall before it closes, while the family is waiting for dinner...ditto a Target to take care of whatever junior HAS to have for school TOMORROW, some basic household stuff...anything to make it easier for downtown workers.  Put in parking meters if you need to.  But plan it with room for parking, do not use all the retail space until you see how the anchor stores do.  Then later, maybe add a grocery store.  But keep the parking in mind as that is the issue.  I'm done, I would hate to see The Landing go away; the riverfront would look as if it lost both front teeth.  Thanks for letting me have my opinion too.