Mayors Office: It's Time To Move Forward With Demolishing Landing

[vicupstate]

If there is a growing sense (probably among younger millennials), that having an actual downtown would be cool, then things will happen, a tiny bit at a time....

Do you realize that every other city has already started down that path?    Twenty years ago!

[thelakelander]

It happened in Jax decades ago too. They've been iced out of downtown for the most part and jerked around by many of the heavily questionable gimmick projects and ideas promoted over the years. Half of the business owners in places like Five Points, Springfield, King Street, CoRK and the Rail Yard District were all interested or have tried to find spots unsuccessfully in downtown.

[thelakelander]

Totally unrealistic to expect a small business to be able to afford the difference in rent. This isn't real relocation assistance. Unless the DIA is going to fill in the significant financial gaps (which isn't going to happen), I agree that most will either close or relocate from downtown.

The Downtown Investment Authority has provided tenants with a list of 15 Downtown properties with rental space available from $16 to $24.75 per square foot per year. That would be a significant increase, considering The Art Center is paying $2 to $3 per square foot.

"When we looked at the packet, the preponderance of the commercially available space listed on that packets are at $18 to $22 per square foot, which is roughly nine times what we're paying now, Malesky told the DIA at its April board meeting.

"That is not something we can absorb," he said, citing the center's nonprofit status.

Malesky said he is convinced that without assistance, many of the Landing businesses will leave Downtown or close.

Full article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-landing-tenants-receive-eviction-notices-ponder-future

[Charles Hunter]

Are any Federal funds involved in the acquisition of the Landing?  If so, it seems the much more stringent Federal Relocation Assistance rules would apply.

[thelakelander]

Evidently, COJ/DIA has already turned the Landing's parking lot into a monthly permit only parking lot. Guess, they are trying to hurt the remaining small businesses (that didn't close from their antics over the last year) to get out faster. Kind of sad to see fat cats making six figure salaries on the public dime to treat taxpayers and small businesses this way.

[Bativac]

If there is a growing sense (probably among younger millennials), that having an actual downtown would be cool, then things will happen, a tiny bit at a time....

Any millennials interested in an actual downtown are not moving to Jacksonville. The ones moving there are doing so due to low cost of living and cheap housing. Downtown is kind of an interesting novelty to them. The ones of us who leave are in search of more vibrancy (and less humidity but that's not the city's fault) and are willing to pay for it.

[bl8jaxnative]

Evidently, COJ/DIA has already turned the Landing's parking lot into a monthly permit only parking lot. Guess, they are trying to hurt the remaining small businesses (that didn't close from their antics over the last year) to get out faster. Kind of sad to see fat cats making six figure salaries on the public dime to treat taxpayers and small businesses this way.

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The businesses have 1 month to vacate.  This parking lot thing isn't a ploy to force them to leave.  They will be leaving.

[thelakelander]

A couple have a few months. What's the rush with limiting their customers access or their ability to move out efficiently?

[tufsu1]

Evidently, COJ/DIA has already turned the Landing's parking lot into a monthly permit only parking lot. Guess, they are trying to hurt the remaining small businesses (that didn't close from their antics over the last year) to get out faster. Kind of sad to see fat cats making six figure salaries on the public dime to treat taxpayers and small businesses this way.

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The businesses have 1 month to vacate.  This parking lot thing isn't a ploy to force them to leave.  They will be leaving.

Several tenants met with CM Gaffney the other day - he offered to assist with possibly getting extensions on their evictions

[thelakelander]

Sounds like the buyout/relocation assistance and demolition costs will be higher than originally stated:

Fionn MacCool's Irish Pub and Restaurant, Hooters would take more than a third of $1.5 million the City Council allocated to relocate, settle leases with tenants.

"The $1.5 million referenced in the legislation (for demolition of the Landing) was approximated based on an estimate provided by a demolition expert – to give the city an idea of the cost," Elsbury told Boyer. "Currently, there is not site work related to preparing pads for development, it is simply clearing the site."

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-says-it-could-cost-dollar590-000-to-terminate-leases-for-two-restaurants-at-the-jacksonville-landing

[KenFSU]

[Steve]

Sounds like the buyout/relocation assistance and demolition costs will be higher than originally stated:

Fionn MacCool's Irish Pub and Restaurant, Hooters would take more than a third of $1.5 million the City Council allocated to relocate, settle leases with tenants.

"The $1.5 million referenced in the legislation (for demolition of the Landing) was approximated based on an estimate provided by a demolition expert – to give the city an idea of the cost," Elsbury told Boyer. "Currently, there is not site work related to preparing pads for development, it is simply clearing the site."

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-says-it-could-cost-dollar590-000-to-terminate-leases-for-two-restaurants-at-the-jacksonville-landing

Shocking.

Remind me again why we didn't just issue an RFP for the property as-is? It would solve so many things, and it wouldn't stop a developer from proposing a tear down and rebuild?

Oh yea, I said that before. So have 17482645 other people.

[Kerry]

The answer is still the same - Lot J.  Without it the Jags leave town.

[Steve]

The answer is still the same - Lot J.  Without it the Jags leave town.

Regardless of that...do you honestly think that Lot J, even if fully developed, would become unsustainable if the Landing was redeveloped into something truly amazing?

There's 1.5 million in the metro area. Lot J isn't going to compete, it would compliment.

[KenFSU]

The answer is still the same - Lot J.  Without it the Jags leave town.

Regardless of that...do you honestly think that Lot J, even if fully developed, would become unsustainable if the Landing was redeveloped into something truly amazing?

There's 1.5 million in the metro area. Lot J isn't going to compete, it would compliment.

Really the only area that they're destined to compete in is events, both civic and commercial.

The Landing has historically been home base for everything from political rallies, to 4th of July and News Years celebrations, to the tree lighting and boat parade, to Florida/Georgia weekend, etc.

Many businesses at the Landing have said over the years that these events provide a huge portion of their annual revenue and allow them to be sustainable for the rest of the year, and the surrounding businesses have also seen a lot of residual impact.

I think whichever developement/space the Landing's previous events end up getting relocated to will have a natural, but certainly not insurmountable, advantage.

Otherwise, agree that there's plenty of room for both to be successful.

They're a mile and a half apart, and realistically serve different audiences (the CBD and northbank residents vs. the transient sports complex crowd).

While the downtown core continues to add more multifamily and workforce housing, I think future development of the Shipyards area beyond Lot J is going to end up being similar to Power & Light over the next decade, in that it will largely be additional luxury residential (see: One Light, Two Light, Three Light) propped up by bloated tax abatements.

I think bulldozing the Landing is its own horrifying mistake that we've all beaten to death and should continue to beat to death until the last minute, but to me, I think the only way you could prove that the decision was driven by development at the sports complex would be if the city attempted to use Curry's Landing park plan to statisfy a land swap with Metro Park.