So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing

[Kerry]

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-council-approves-deal-that-gives-city-possession-of-the-jacksonville-landing

Witness... the excuses!

Bill Gulliford said demolition would benefit potential developers who would have a clean slate to create something new.

"I'm just tickled to death to see movement on the Landing," Gulliford said. "I don't have any heartburn about demolishing the structures."

Lori Boyer said it was time to "move forward with Jacksonville's future."

She called JLI partner Toney Sleiman, president of shopping center developer Sleiman Enterprises, one of Jacksonville's most successful retail operators and asked if he couldn't make the Landing work, how could the city do so.

Council President Aaron Bowman echoed other claims that the city would end up wasting money on maintenance and repairs if the structures remain.

Bowman said in his role as a vice president at JAXUSA Partnership, the economic development arm of JAX Chamber, he often tells people not to visit the Landing.

Oh, and a bone tied to string at the end here:

In the next six months, Hughes said to expect the DIA and the administration to aggressively seek proposals for redevelopment.

He said that while the administration favors demolition, there will be time to discuss all possibilities.

"We're not going to say never," said Hughes about using the buildings for another purpose.

"If somebody comes to us with an amazing plan that makes sense given the expertise at DIA and throughout the city, we'll listen," he said.

ROFLMAO  - maybe if the Jax Chamber wasn't telling people NOT to go there.  This city is run by self-serving morons.

[Lunican]

What happens when they discover the ground under the Landing is contaminated? Will the city also pay for remediation?

[marcuscnelson]

What happens when they discover the ground under the Landing is contaminated? Will the city also pay for remediation?

Depends:

If Buyer=Iguana Investments, then Yes.
Else, No.

[heights unknown]

Update! Council's Finance Committee is on board. Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190320/majority-of-city-council-backs-tearing-down-jacksonville-landing

Brian Hughes, who is chief of staff for Mayor Lenny Curry and also interim CEO of the Downtown Investment Authority, said the city already has fielded inquiries from developers about the Landing site.

He said the redevelopment of that site could move forward in the same way the DIA is seeking to attract private development on downtown land where demolition has been knocking down the old county courthouse and city hall annex along Bay Street.

The DIA board is scheduled to vote at its meeting Wednesday afternoon to hire a real estate specialist to create a development plan and the criteria the city will use while seeking a private developer at the courthouse and city hall annex land.

I really hate the "coulds" that Hughes uses. In other words, let's say you need about a year and a half (this is being nice and aggressive) to hire a real estate specialist, have them perform their study, then have the DIA create an RFP and issue an RFP for the site's future. Assuming no hick-ups, add another six months to a year to allow developers to respond to the RFP, select one to negotiate with and then go through the negotiation process. Assuming no hiccups, give that developer another year and a half to design, finance and successfully get through the permitting process. Add another 18 months to two years for construction. At best, you're looking at two major dead holes in the urban grid for a good five years. At worst, we go into a recession in two to three years and then you end up with another generational kids kampus type screw up.

Hughes said the DIA staff will meet with Landing tenants interested in remaining downtown to show them retail spaces where they can relocate.

"If we have retailers who are successful and want to stay in downtown, we're going to work with them to try to make that happen," Hughes said.

Good but to be realistic, unless the DIA and COJ is going to open up the piggybank, the numbers likely won't work. The benefit of a space like the Landing is it can act as a small business incubator to a degree. Business owners don't have to come in and build out shell spaces, provide public restrooms, bring old empty spaces up to code or pay extra high rents. That's a completely different financial animal from moving into a shell space like the Library garage or the Carling.

Some residents want the city to keep the mall and re-purpose it for another use. An online petition drive titled "Stop Tearing Down Urban Core Buildings" has gained almost 900 signatures.

But Hughes said the Landing is outdated as a retail facility and the Curry administration favors demolition. He said the replacement for the Landing could be a site with open space for the public plus some buildings for commercial activity.

"Could" suggests a level of either they don't know what they want or they do and aren't being totally revealing about it at this point. Favoring demolition without knowing what they want would be pretty uncreative and shortsighted since the process it will take to study the market, write an RFP, find a developer, etc. (assuming they even go that route) should happen before removing businesses and demolition.

Jax really needs a plan where everyone knows and participate in the implementation of a future vision for downtown. In many cities, they might not be where they want to be now but everyone knows where they're headed or at least trying to go.  Such stability actually helps move market rate private development along at a faster pace.

I'm beginning not to like Curry; and this Hughes guy needs to hang up his high heels and get a life.

[heights unknown]

Update! Council's Finance Committee is on board. Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190320/majority-of-city-council-backs-tearing-down-jacksonville-landing

Brian Hughes, who is chief of staff for Mayor Lenny Curry and also interim CEO of the Downtown Investment Authority, said the city already has fielded inquiries from developers about the Landing site.

He said the redevelopment of that site could move forward in the same way the DIA is seeking to attract private development on downtown land where demolition has been knocking down the old county courthouse and city hall annex along Bay Street.

The DIA board is scheduled to vote at its meeting Wednesday afternoon to hire a real estate specialist to create a development plan and the criteria the city will use while seeking a private developer at the courthouse and city hall annex land.

I really hate the "coulds" that Hughes uses. In other words, let's say you need about a year and a half (this is being nice and aggressive) to hire a real estate specialist, have them perform their study, then have the DIA create an RFP and issue an RFP for the site's future. Assuming no hick-ups, add another six months to a year to allow developers to respond to the RFP, select one to negotiate with and then go through the negotiation process. Assuming no hiccups, give that developer another year and a half to design, finance and successfully get through the permitting process. Add another 18 months to two years for construction. At best, you're looking at two major dead holes in the urban grid for a good five years. At worst, we go into a recession in two to three years and then you end up with another generational kids kampus type screw up.

Hughes said the DIA staff will meet with Landing tenants interested in remaining downtown to show them retail spaces where they can relocate.

"If we have retailers who are successful and want to stay in downtown, we're going to work with them to try to make that happen," Hughes said.

Good but to be realistic, unless the DIA and COJ is going to open up the piggybank, the numbers likely won't work. The benefit of a space like the Landing is it can act as a small business incubator to a degree. Business owners don't have to come in and build out shell spaces, provide public restrooms, bring old empty spaces up to code or pay extra high rents. That's a completely different financial animal from moving into a shell space like the Library garage or the Carling.

Some residents want the city to keep the mall and re-purpose it for another use. An online petition drive titled "Stop Tearing Down Urban Core Buildings" has gained almost 900 signatures.

But Hughes said the Landing is outdated as a retail facility and the Curry administration favors demolition. He said the replacement for the Landing could be a site with open space for the public plus some buildings for commercial activity.

"Could" suggests a level of either they don't know what they want or they do and aren't being totally revealing about it at this point. Favoring demolition without knowing what they want would be pretty uncreative and shortsighted since the process it will take to study the market, write an RFP, find a developer, etc. (assuming they even go that route) should happen before removing businesses and demolition.

Jax really needs a plan where everyone knows and participate in the implementation of a future vision for downtown. In many cities, they might not be where they want to be now but everyone knows where they're headed or at least trying to go.  Such stability actually helps move market rate private development along at a faster pace.

With Jacksonville you're preaching to a choir that's out of tune, off key, and can't sing.

[heights unknown]

Harrah's or Hard Rock Casino is the only project needed to bring life to downtown 24/7. Drivers would have a reason to pull off I-95 for a visit and other developments would follow without asking for tax incentives.

Hard Rock Casino is coming to Jax? When did this happen or am I reading this post wrong?

[Charles Hunter]

Harrah's or Hard Rock Casino is the only project needed to bring life to downtown 24/7. Drivers would have a reason to pull off I-95 for a visit and other developments would follow without asking for tax incentives.

Hard Rock Casino is coming to Jax? When did this happen or am I reading this post wrong?

Only in Himsiro's fever dreams.

[avonjax]

I promise you in a couple of years the people of Jacksonville will be asking what in the heck happened on the riverfront? And when is something going to be done with the site? In 10 years we will be asking what is going to happen with the former Landing site? The boring greenspace will not attract anyone downtown, I promise. As we watch the space get reworked into something awful we can look back and reminisce about what could have been. I have a terrible feeling NO ONE will invest in the space. The core will move to Riverside and the Sports Complex. I hope I'm wrong but just look at the shipyards and former Southbank site and tell me something will happen faster there. I'm here to tell I will not see anything in my lifetime. All I've seen is the mass destruction of downtown. I have kinda given up everyone. And if there is a downturn in the economy we are doomed to stare are dead spaces all over.

[Snaketoz]

I promise you in a couple of years the people of Jacksonville will be asking what in the heck happened on the riverfront? And when is something going to be done with the site? In 10 years we will be asking what is going to happen with the former Landing site? The boring greenspace will not attract anyone downtown, I promise. As we watch the space get reworked into something awful we can look back and reminisce about what could have been. I have a terrible feeling NO ONE will invest in the space. The core will move to Riverside and the Sports Complex. I hope I'm wrong but just look at the shipyards and former Southbank site and tell me something will happen faster there. I'm here to tell I will not see anything in my lifetime. All I've seen is the mass destruction of downtown. I have kinda given up everyone. And if there is a downturn in the economy we are doomed to stare are dead spaces all over.

You have every right to feel that way.  When politicians are chosen by the monied, special interest few, and re-elected because the general population to too lazy to vote, or too uninterested to care, this is what we get.  The regime in power is having the taxpayer paying for the further enrichment of the power brokers.  The mayor is just a puppet.  He has been led astray by what is in it for him in the future.  With a downturn in the economy in the next few years the mayor's handlers will snap-up a bunch of properties at bargain prices.  The future is quite scary for those of us out of the good ole boys network.

[Charles Hunter]

How long before the drumbeat to "get that valuable vacant land on the river back on the tax rolls"?  And then a short-sale to one of the Connected, with no restrictions on what gets built.

[Snaketoz]

How long before the drumbeat to "get that valuable vacant land on the river back on the tax rolls"?  And then a short-sale to one of the Connected, with no restrictions on what gets built.

When the properties go up for sale, what you want to bet the buyer will receive an incentive package that forgives taxes for years, and helps with the development?  They'll say "get them back on the tax rolls", but it won't until a succession of cronies turn the properties over a few times raking in millions.

[Kerry]

I promise you in a couple of years the people of Jacksonville will be asking what in the heck happened on the riverfront? And when is something going to be done with the site? In 10 years we will be asking what is going to happen with the former Landing site? The boring greenspace will not attract anyone downtown, I promise. As we watch the space get reworked into something awful we can look back and reminisce about what could have been. I have a terrible feeling NO ONE will invest in the space. The core will move to Riverside and the Sports Complex. I hope I'm wrong but just look at the shipyards and former Southbank site and tell me something will happen faster there. I'm here to tell I will not see anything in my lifetime. All I've seen is the mass destruction of downtown. I have kinda given up everyone. And if there is a downturn in the economy we are doomed to stare are dead spaces all over.

You aren't the only who thinks this.  Clearly Jacksonville leadership, be it elected representatives, appointed members of boards, civic leaders, and business leaders, either don't know what walkable urbanism is or don't care about it.  The result is a city that continues to sprawl in a world of cities that are densifying.  Unless Jacksonville changes it won't be able to compete in a 21st century world. Walkable urbanism isn't just a lifestyle choice, it is an integral part of an economic model.  We have to lower the cost of government or go broke.  We simply can't afford low density sprawl and an auto-centric culture.

Our job is to either make them care or replace them with people who do care.  Now how to do that obviously isn't easy or fast. 

[thelakelander]

I don't think they fully know and understand what it is. I say that because if they didn't care, they wouldn't continue to light money on fire on projects continuously billed as game changers.

[Tacachale]

For the first time in my life - and I go back a ways here - I've essentially given up hope for downtown Jax. Everytime we get momentum, the city either abandons it, or worse, starts meddling to the point that we take a step back for every one we take forward. Fortunately, we're seeing other neighborhoods really take off even if the loud sucking sound in the center of it all will apparently continue.

[Steve]

I do feel like with the development on the edge of downtown (particularly the areas inf Brooklyn, northern San Marco, and southern Springfield) will help downtown. I'm not sure how long this will take.

I do realize that this is sort of the barbell theory that I've agreed with lake is not realistic though.