Public Meeting Planned For Hart Bridge Ramp Removal (Renderings included)

[thelakelander]

On Thursday, March 14 from 4 to 6 p.m., the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) will host a public meeting for citizens to review and comment on a proposed plan to remove the Hart/Talleyrand Expressway around TIAA Bank Field just east of Downtown Jacksonville. Here's a look at the proposed project that the many hope will spur new development within the Sports and Entertainment District.

Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/public-meeting-planned-for-expressway-ramp-removal/

[RatTownRyan]

I'm glad that these plans got rid of that ridiculous loop.

[Steve]

The intersection at the bottom of the bridge is only slightly more pedestrian friendly than Atlantic Blvd and Arlington Expressway. Good lord.

[Adam White]

The intersection at the bottom of the bridge is only slightly more pedestrian friendly than Atlantic Blvd and Arlington Expressway. Good lord.

That's what I was thinking. I appreciate why getting rid of the giant ramp would improve things visually - but I was wondering how such a busy/imposing road would make the area any better in the long run. If the aim is to make it more walkable and to tie the riverfront land in with the rest of the district, it would seem you would need to somehow reduce the size of the road. If it's massive like this, it seems it would be almost as much as a barrier as the ramp.

[thelakelander]

^That intersection was the first thing that popped up in my head when I first saw the concept.

I haven't looked at the traffic analysis but I wonder why they just don't close the rest of the elevated ramps behind Maxwell House, even if they don't have the money to raze them or immediately convert them into an elevated greenspace or trail system?

That would at least get rid of the high speed interchange at A.Philip Randolph Boulevard. Bay and Forsyth streets would become more congested through downtown but that may be a good thing for filling vacant storefronts west of Liberty Street on Bay and Forsyth. After all, the best thing this project achieves for the stadium area is making the properties around it directly accessible to more through traffic currently bypassing it. My guess is that's what's most important to the feasibility of development around the stadium because there's no way things like Lot J will work if there's no high AADT driving past the site with direct and easy access every day.

Also, as currently illustrated, just imagine JTA's AVs moving at a max of 25mph mixing in with cars and trucks come down those ramps and gunning it through there to hit the green lights. No way slow moving AVs should be allowed to mix in with regular traffic in this design scenario. To potentially accommodate future transit needs, an envelop for at least two transit only lanes should be reserved on the south side of Gator Bowl Boulevard adjacent to that proposed 12' sidewalk.

Another concern would be north/south pedestrian movement. This doesn't appear to improve pedestrian safety since the current viaduct completely removes high speed traffic from street level. This introduces conflict points between cars and peds that don't exist today. To eliminate/significantly reduce the potential of people jaywalking and getting hit by cars, some type of fencing or channelization will be needed to force pedestrians on both sides of the street to the few marked crossings at signalized intersections. Sort of like this project along US 92 in Daytona Beach:

[Charles Hunter]

Something I noticed about the APR intersection - it appears the project removes the existing pedestrian crossing of AP Randolph, from Intuition to the sidewalk along the retention pond near First Coast News.  So, to get from Intuition to the stadium or Daily's Place, instead of just crossing a 50 foot wide (estimate) street, you will have to cross Bay Street (4 lanes), cross South APR (4 lanes), walk to the intersection of relocated Bay Street eastbound and cross it (2 lanes), to use the new sidewalk on the south side of Bay Street.  Then, when you get to Daily's/Stadium, cross Bay Street again - 4 lanes and a median.

[Charles Hunter]

It appears the merger of the remnant ramps from downtown and eastbound Bay Street will be controlled by a traffic signal, see the symbol near Georgia Street.  Presumably, the ramp and Bay Street would get alternating green lights.

[thelakelander]

Yes, but can still see a scenario where you have occasional red light runners and drivers gunning it down that ramp or from EB Bay to make that light. A slow moving AV sharing lanes just exacerbates the potential negatives of that situation. From a safety perspective, pulling them out seems to make a bit more sense.

[Charles Hunter]

Oh, I agree, the slow-moving AVs will be a problem in mixed traffic.  Wonder what the posted speed will be (for what that is worth).

[vicupstate]

I fear that the whole point of the project is merely to remove an eyesore ramp because it is 'ugly', more so than actually integrating autos and pedetrians in such a way that the property north of Gator Bowl Blvd. is seemless with the Riverfront property to the South of GB Blvd.   

[thelakelander]

According to Florida Traffic Online, Gator Bowl Boulevard currently has an AADT of 4600 vehicles. The ramp currently carries 11400 vehicles past TIAA Bank Field with no way to directly tie into the Lot J/Metropolitan Park intersection. Taking it down means an AADT of 16,000 vehicles driving past your front door every day. In no way is that solution safer for cyclist and pedestrians.

However, a commercial site with access to 16,000 cars a day is more viable than one with 4,600. So to me it looks more like it helps pull expressway traffic into the area, making development around the stadium more feasible from a market perspective. Overall, there's nothing wrong with that concept (could even help the Elbow if the viaduct west of APR was closed and traffic is forced to enter downtown via Bay Street). The way it's addressed just needs to be modified to make it more multimodal friendly.

[DrQue]

Why can't they just dress up the ramps and make them aesthetically pleasing?

[Charles Hunter]

Why can't they just dress up the ramps and make them aesthetically pleasing?

Mr. Khan said they are in the way of his development.

[marcuscnelson]

So how'd this go?

[thelakelander]

People hate it, not that it really matters....

Residents "Hart" bridge ramp, oppose demolition

Opponents of tearing down a piece of the Hart Bridge's elevated ramps had a chance to let rip with their criticisms Thursday during a public meeting that showed off the concept for the $39 million project that remains firmly on track to move forward and start affecting drivers in early 2020.

The demolition and reconstruction along a one-mile stretch where the ramp runs past the sports complex would bring traffic down to street level as drivers are going between the Hart Bridge and downtown.

City officials say that when the project is done by late 2021, the ground-level portion will add less than a minute of drive time while opening up a large area where Jaguars owner Shad Khan envisions a $2.5 billion "urban village" stretching from TIAA Bank Field to the St. Johns River.

Opponents scoffed at projections that motorists will see little impact to how much time they spend in traffic. They said the city is poised to tear down a segment of ramp that's in perfectly good shape so Khan can profit from the planned development.

"It's just a huge waste of taxpayers' money to make a fairy tale project look better," Jacksonville resident Kermit Dunwoody said.

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190314/residents-hart-bridge-ramp-oppose-demolition