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Started by downtownbrown, February 26, 2019, 10:03:34 AM

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downtownbrown

February 26, 2019, 10:03:34 AM
http://thegreyrestaurant.com/

A weekend in Savannah gives great perspective on downtown Jax. I saw The Grey featured on Chef's Table Saturday morning in Jax, and had lunch there that afternoon.  Savannah attracts downtown entrepreneurs.  The owner of the Grey (met him; nice guy) is from Manhattan. He took a risk on a bombed out 1930s art deco greyhound station. The place is outstanding.  Savannah, of course, decided long ago to NOT knock down old buildings. The result is pretty awesome.


I mentioned to the owner that downtown Jax needs a little action.  "So I heard," was the reply.  Nice to have a reputation.

BridgeTroll

#1
February 26, 2019, 10:36:16 AM
Just got back from another fun filled weekend in Savannah... they are even in the process of re purposing the old riverfront power plant... 8)
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

BridgeTroll

#2
February 26, 2019, 10:41:20 AM
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

downtownbrown

#3
February 26, 2019, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 26, 2019, 10:36:16 AM
Just got back from another fun filled weekend in Savannah... they are even in the process of re purposing the old riverfront power plant... 8)


...into a JW Marriott, right?

BridgeTroll

#4
February 26, 2019, 02:17:51 PM
Quote from: downtownbrown on February 26, 2019, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 26, 2019, 10:36:16 AM
Just got back from another fun filled weekend in Savannah... they are even in the process of re purposing the old riverfront power plant... 8)


...into a JW Marriott, right?

I believe so... we dynamited our riverfront power plant many years ago...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Kerry

#5
February 26, 2019, 03:16:33 PM
If you saw Savannah 15 years ago you wouldn't recognize it today.  Savannah developed a realistic plan to re-urbanize downtown one block at a time and then stuck to it.  Not a silver bullet project to be seen.  Jax is the exact opposite - no plan, no stick-to-it-izness and endless silver bullet projects that NEVER materialize (and if they did materialize they wouldn't work).
Third Place

downtownbrown

#6
February 26, 2019, 03:37:14 PM
Savannah does set the bar as the un-Jax.  But they intended to be the un-Jax throughout their history.  So now Jax will have to become something more like Norfolk.  Which is fine...

BridgeTroll

#7
February 26, 2019, 03:49:30 PM
15 years ago downtown Jax had already destroyed the old waterfront... LaVilla and anything else deemed old and decrepit.  Jax can NEVER be like Savannah because they destroyed most of it years ago... and keep doing it...and doing it... and doing it... rofl...  ::) :-[
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

thelakelander

#8
February 26, 2019, 07:46:33 PM
Quote from: downtownbrown on February 26, 2019, 03:37:14 PM
Savannah does set the bar as the un-Jax.  But they intended to be the un-Jax throughout their history.  So now Jax will have to become something more like Norfolk.  Which is fine...
Jax won't be like Norfolk either. Its DT is pretty compact and that city's revitalization efforts appear to be coordinated. Jax will simply be a growing Sunbelt city with a slower CBD than its peers until the time comes that our approach to redevelopment changes. On the other hand, Jax's urban core neighborhoods will become the place to be for the next generation. The trend is heading towards authenticity and local. Not sure that can be achieved with a Cordish or Rouse mass produced model. Nevertheless, time will tell.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

marcuscnelson

#9
February 27, 2019, 12:10:27 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 26, 2019, 03:49:30 PM
15 years ago downtown Jax had already destroyed the old waterfront... LaVilla and anything else deemed old and decrepit.  Jax can NEVER be like Savannah because they destroyed most of it years ago... and keep doing it...and doing it... and doing it... rofl...  ::) :-[


It's a little strange thinking about that and realizing that 15 years ago was 2004.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

Kerry

#10
February 27, 2019, 11:00:56 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 26, 2019, 07:46:33 PM
Quote from: downtownbrown on February 26, 2019, 03:37:14 PM
Savannah does set the bar as the un-Jax.  But they intended to be the un-Jax throughout their history.  So now Jax will have to become something more like Norfolk.  Which is fine...
Jax won't be like Norfolk either. Its DT is pretty compact and that city's revitalization efforts appear to be coordinated. Jax will simply be a growing Sunbelt city with a slower CBD than its peers until the time comes that our approach to redevelopment changes. On the other hand, Jax's urban core neighborhoods will become the place to be for the next generation. The trend is heading towards authenticity and local. Not sure that can be achieved with a Cordish or Rouse mass produced model. Nevertheless, time will tell.

The definition of the term "sunbelt city" changed, and it left Jacksonville behind.  It used to be defined by sprawling cities with freeways instead of mass transit, subdivisions instead of urban density, and malls instead of street-front retail.  Now it just means warm weather climate because other warm weather cities are densifying, implementing rail mass transit, and reverting to street-front retail.

While I agree that Jax's future lies in it's downtown adjacent neighborhoods, those neighborhoods have announced themselves "Closed for Business" - which means downtown Jax is essentially closed for business.  That alone should probably be a reason to get behind Lot J, because for better or worse, it is the only game in town.
Third Place

downtownbrown

#11
February 27, 2019, 11:24:23 AM
I'm thinking about opening a historic downtown Jacksonville hop on, hop off trolley tour like they have in Savannah, Charleston, and cities across America and the world.

Wait.  No I'm not. 

thelakelander

#12
February 27, 2019, 11:34:06 AM
Quote from: Kerry on February 27, 2019, 11:00:56 AMWhile I agree that Jax's future lies in it's downtown adjacent neighborhoods, those neighborhoods have announced themselves "Closed for Business" - which means downtown Jax is essentially closed for business.  That alone should probably be a reason to get behind Lot J, because for better or worse, it is the only game in town.

I see places like Murray Hill, Durkeeville, Rail Yard District, Eastside, Kings Avenue/Philips Highway as places of opportunity. I don't think they're closed for business. It's quite the opposite. They're being rediscovered.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

marcuscnelson

#13
February 27, 2019, 11:36:22 AM
Quote from: downtownbrown on February 27, 2019, 11:24:23 AM
I'm thinking about opening a historic downtown Jacksonville hop on, hop off trolley tour like they have in Savannah, Charleston, and cities across America and the world.

Wait.  No I'm not.

Oops, Lenny Curry already ripped up Bay Street for you and your game changer. Please hold while we rebuild the street while not doing anything to plan for any other transportation or urban renewal alternative. Sure, it'd make more sense to do it now, but that's not what THE BOLD CITY is about!
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

civil42806

#14
February 27, 2019, 11:52:17 AM
Quote from: Kerry on February 26, 2019, 03:16:33 PM
If you saw Savannah 15 years ago you wouldn't recognize it today.  Savannah developed a realistic plan to re-urbanize downtown one block at a time and then stuck to it.  Not a silver bullet project to be seen.  Jax is the exact opposite - no plan, no stick-to-it-izness and endless silver bullet projects that NEVER materialize (and if they did materialize they wouldn't work).

I lived in Savannah about 10 years ago and if u think that city has become what it is in 15 years, I have a NBA franchise to sell u
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