Food court at the Landing closed...

[KenFSU]

Also, the few remaining businesses at The Landing will be looking for new locations, possibly filling some vacant spaces Downtown. Ie, hopefully Hooters & Fionn McCools can find a good fit.

I can't speak for Fionn McCools, but for Hooters, the day-to-day business wasn't keeping the lights on. Instead, they - like many of the Landing's current and former tenants - generated a huge portion of their annual revenues from a few key events. Florida-Georgia. July 4th. New Year's Eve. The Tree Lighting ceremony and boat parade, etc. In the absence of the Landing as Jacksonvile's central civic space for these types of events, I'm not sure that it's as easy as just moving down the street.

If Lot J becomes downtown Jacksonville's premier retail center, it's a loss, but there will be other retail. But if we bulldoze the Landing and displace all of these civic events from the heart of downtown a mile east to the stadium district, we might as well just give up. 

[Snaketoz]

Maybe Tony Sleiman should be running for mayor.  Or at least head of the city budget office.  He made Curry look just like the schmuck he is.

[thelakelander]

What visitors? Take a look at the surrounding land uses. They're mostly Class A office space and a performing arts center that's not active seven days a week. Based off the context, we're likely to see a park just as active as the green space in front of the performing arts center has been since the 1980s. A park in that space will need some retail, dining, entertainment elements to consistently make it attractive to more than just the homeless. If we're talking that, then we seriously need to slow down on the 100% demo talk and see if some form of reuse is workable. Plus, even if COJ put decent effort into keeping it clean, one could argue those efforts would have been better used on existing public spaces. Good call on the businesses. However, at this point, there's nothing suggesting that any of these businesses will stick to downtown or if we even have spaces to accommodate them their build-outs because that will take more than $1.5 million to terminate lease agreements.

[thelakelander]

Maybe Tony Sleiman should be running for mayor.  Or at least head of the city budget office.  He made Curry look just like the schmuck he is.

I'm not going to call Curry names although I don't find this decision making much sense. With that said, Sleiman certainly comes out as the winner hands down. COJ could benefit from his financial prowess.

[thelakelander]

Also, the few remaining businesses at The Landing will be looking for new locations, possibly filling some vacant spaces Downtown. Ie, hopefully Hooters & Fionn McCools can find a good fit.

I can't speak for Fionn McCools, but for Hooters, the day-to-day business wasn't keeping the lights on. Instead, they - like many of the Landing's current and former tenants - generated a huge portion of their annual revenues from a few key events. Florida-Georgia. July 4th. New Year's Eve. The Tree Lighting ceremony and boat parade, etc. In the absence of the Landing as Jacksonvile's central civic space for these types of events, I'm not sure that it's as easy as just moving down the street.

If Lot J becomes downtown Jacksonville's premier retail center, it's a loss, but there will be other retail. But if we bulldoze the Landing and displace all of these civic events from the heart of downtown a mile east to the stadium district, we might as well just give up.

I doubt most of these businesses relocate. They'll need a lot more than a combined $1.5 million in lease buyouts to build-out new locations. The Northbank will simply suffer the loss and we'll fund it at the expense of more pressing public needs.

[JaxAvondale]

Turn the Landing in a food hall and everybody will be happy.

http://mercadodesanmiguel.es

[thelakelander]

It would be so easy and a lot cheaper. It makes too much sense which is why it can't happen.

[Dolph1975]

IF there's a bright side to this for the Downtown core, I'd guess COJ would actually put a decent amount of effort into making & keeping the park attractive to visitors.

Attractive to the homeless too!  I'm sure they too will appreciate a nice riverfront park for them to congregate in.  The park on Main Street by the library is filling up.....  Will this new park also be void of benches like Hemming Plaza?

[jaxlongtimer]

Ironic, that Curry's campaign slogan is "Jacksonville on the Rise."  Let's see...

Demo old city hall
Demo old courthouse
Demo Hart bridge ramps
Demo JEA/Florida Power & Light Power Park
Demo old Gulf Life building for Jax Fire & Rescue
Maybe demo JEA Tower & adjacent former Ivey's department store
Demo old Greyhound station...

I will say if the Landing is to go, I am supportive of making it a green riverfront park.  Most any City with a waterfront like ours would drool over such an opportunity.  I don't buy having major developments pushed right up to the edges of the river.  We need green space to enhance the rest of Downtown, serve as a gathering spot for events and attract more residential development.  Among many cities, New York isn't allowing it (with great success) and neither should we.

Manhattan's master greenway plan:

https://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_things_to_do/facilities/images/manhattan-waterfront-greenway.pdf

Partial section of greenway at Battery Park, in the core of the financial district, now being surrounded by increasing numbers of residential towers:



East river section:



West river section:



East Harlem new addition, 7 acres at cost of $100 million:

[thelakelander]

We've had this discussion before but its laughable to compare anything in DT Jax with NYC. Totally different context and density. Some here were saying the same thing about Unity Plaza when Alex Coley and others were comparing it to Bryant Park. Said the same thing and we see how that one turned out.

This little space will have a similar fate as every other green space established by Jax in the downtown core in since 1950, if it's not largely designed to be integrated with retail and dining space nearby. There's no density (or plan to increase immediate density) or reason to draw many people there (this is where some commercial space would help) outside of isolated special events.

[jaxlongtimer]

Lake, I see two things: 
1. Chicken and egg, i.e. does density follow amenities or visa versa.  I suggest the former in this case.
2. Execution:  The failures regularly highlighted here are not necessarily the fault of the plan, but of poor execution due to half-hearted implementation, failure to consistently support and/or maintain the plan, poor planning, inadequate funding, lack of doing proper homework, cronyism over the civic good, etc.  Jax leadership certainly excels in this regard.  Rather than kill the plan, let's get a team in who can do it right.  I see this as the biggest differential between Jax and every other city that manages to make these projects work with the same or less going for them than Jax.

Unity Plaza was poorly conceived and executed and is certainly not comparable, in my view, to a riverfront park on this most prime piece of property downtown.  I agree it is laughable to compare Unity Plaza to Bryant Park on many levels (let's start with Unity's lack of a sizable lawn).  I used New York because it's fame and dense building stock make it easy to show off that green space can be valued even in the presence of some of the planet's most valuable and intensely developed real estate.  I could pick almost any city in the world, large or small, with water on par with Jax, and would venture to say I would find more proportionally larger waterfront green space by far than what we have in Jax presently.

[thelakelander]

1. Chicken and egg, i.e. does density follow amenities or visa versa.  I suggest the former in this case.

I don't believe in chicken and egg theories for places that have been in existence for nearly 200 years. We have existing context. The density around this site isn't changing. It's Class A office buildings, a seldom used performing arts center a bridge, and parking decks. This means, park with nothing in it or anything else, the site serves as a central location to an environment that will generally close up shop after 5pm on weekdays and not even be open on weekends. It is what it is. To change that dynamic, you'll need an integrated mix of uses that has the ability to draw people from outside the general vicinity on a consistent basis. Something like a food hall, cultural attraction, etc. There's nothing wrong with green space, but for it to be a draw, the other mixes of uses will be needed.

2. Execution:  The failures regularly highlighted here are not necessarily the fault of the plan, but of poor execution due to half-hearted implementation, failure to consistently support and/or maintain the plan, poor planning, inadequate funding, lack of doing proper homework, cronyism over the civic good, etc.  Jax leadership certainly excels in this regard.  Rather than kill the plan, let's get a team in who can do it right.  I see this as the biggest differential between Jax and every other city that manages to make these projects work with the same or less going for them than Jax.

I agree in general that execution is bad. However, I see this as a continuing example of bad execution, poor planning and lack of doing proper homework.  If the plan is bad, it doesn't matter who the team is. We have to think and invest more holistically outside of the Landing site and to date, it's not really evident that we do. This is the biggest difference between Jax and the Nashvilles, Orlandos and Charlottes of the region. They're pretty calculated and coordinated in what they do. We're not.

[Artmo]

"..................... so that Jacksonville can consider an alternate path forward for the location of the Landing."

I saw this one coming a mile away. IMO it was always in the plans to Demo the existing structure from the get go when the city went after Sleiman. I just don't get this city sometimes. I thought Laura street trio was the turning point for the core, then we go and do this. Unreal.

[pierre]

It always felt like the Landing's only good function in it's current state was as a "town square" for events like Fla-Ga and NYE. I assume part of all of these moves is that a goal that Lot J becomes that in future years.

Whether that is realistic or not is a legit question.

[Snaketoz]

I see Lot J doing to downtown what malls did to downtown shopping decades ago.  Moving the heart of entertainment east will only help those with a vested interest there.  What will the people staying in hotels do?  It will be years before there will be anywhere to go or anything to do downtown.  We should have been maintaining the Landing, making it better.  How many sites do we have close to the heart of the city that is so right for a hub for night life?  There is no need to remove contaminants, the infrastructure is there, and it has so much potential.  This is a sad day for Cowford.