Food court at the Landing closed...

[thelakelander]

If demand is there for places to eat, establishments will rise elsewhere

^It's a little more complex than that. The Landing is an entertainment center. A significant draw to retail/dining/entertainment businesses, etc. there is that it is a place with programming for consistently scheduled special events. Without that component, the retailers there will struggle since downtown doesn't have consistent foot traffic and many of the available storefronts aren't located on streets with higher vehicular AADTs.

in fact, instead of just a linear strip along the waterfront, maybe a strip of restaurants can be built off the river to start to create a corridor of activity deeper into downtown rather than just along the river.

This is essentially what the Landing is. Perhaps reuse of some of the Landing's buildings should be considered for this as opposed to demolishing everything and rebuilding something similar?

[jaxnyc79]

If demand is there for places to eat, establishments will rise elsewhere

^It's a little more complex than that. The Landing is an entertainment center. A significant draw to retail/dining/entertainment businesses, etc. there is that it is a place with programming for consistently scheduled special events. Without that component, the retailers there will struggle since downtown doesn't have consistent foot traffic and many of the available storefronts aren't located on streets with higher vehicular AADTs.

in fact, instead of just a linear strip along the waterfront, maybe a strip of restaurants can be built off the river to start to create a corridor of activity deeper into downtown rather than just along the river.

This is essentially what the Landing is. Perhaps reuse of some of the Landing's buildings should be considered for this as opposed to demolishing everything and rebuilding something similar?

Relax dude.  Yes, I know there are layers upon layers of complexity but I'm keeping things brief.  Landing is a failure and a current blight.  Whatever comes in its place can also have programming and some foot traffic generators. 

[thelakelander]

Whatever comes in its place can also have programming and some foot traffic generators.

The Landing is simply a name and retail concept. Let's not confuse these things with the concepts programming and generating foot traffic. You don't have to kick out a large chunk of downtown's remaining businesses that are open at night and on the weekends to create a place with programming and foot traffic generators. Adaptive reuse should be on the table before asking taxpayers to spend millions more for something taxpayers may not even want. That's the main point I'm trying to make here.

[sandyshoes]

Since the original title of this thread was about the food court being closed...I totally miss me some Flamer's burgers.  If you owned Flamer's and are reading this, please open up another one in Jacksonville!  I'm too old to drag out the grill and charcoal anymore. 

[Adam White]

Such a beautiful space, with so much untapped potential, we'll miss her when she's gone.

What are the people in that photo doing? If they're watcing a live band or something, there's no reason why that couldn't happen in a park. Nothing too worthwhile happens in the Landing that can't happen in a decent park - watching fireworks, concerts, etc. It's not like those people are there shopping.

I'm not saying we SHOULD build a park - but that Landing is shit. There's nothing there and it's serving no real purpose as it is. I don't think a photo of a bunch of drunks watching something is necessarily a good case for the Landing's continued existence - a picture of the empty courtyard is more accurate, as it's empty the vast majority of the time.

[Tacachale]

Such a beautiful space, with so much untapped potential, we'll miss her when she's gone.

What are the people in that photo doing? If they're watcing a live band or something, there's no reason why that couldn't happen in a park. Nothing too worthwhile happens in the Landing that can't happen in a decent park - watching fireworks, concerts, etc. It's not like those people are there shopping.

I'm not saying we SHOULD build a park - but that Landing is shit. There's nothing there and it's serving no real purpose as it is. I don't think a photo of a bunch of drunks watching something is necessarily a good case for the Landing's continued existence - a picture of the empty courtyard is more accurate, as it's empty the vast majority of the time.

You're missing several of the points here. First, shit or not, it's not a matter of waving a wand and turning the Landing into a park. The current proposal is for spending $18 million, on a building that's assessed at $4 million and that no one else is trying to bid on, just to buy and demolish it, and then spending however many additional millions it would take to turn it into a park. And then to subsidize an equivalent venue a mile away.

Of that money, $1.5 million is to buy out leases to close some of the only businesses in Downtown that are open at night and on weekends.

And then, there's no indication that there will be events at this park. Everything points to the events shifting a mile away to Lot J.

[thelakelander]

^This. I couldn't have said it better myself!

Btw, for those demanding a park, why is there no focus on the Landing's East Lot? It's been a waterfront surface parking lot ever since the city's historic public fish market was razed back in the 1950s for revitalization and redevelopment by the Haydon Burns administration. If COJ has $18 million to light on fire, a nice park could be built there for that price tag.

[Adam White]

Such a beautiful space, with so much untapped potential, we'll miss her when she's gone.

What are the people in that photo doing? If they're watcing a live band or something, there's no reason why that couldn't happen in a park. Nothing too worthwhile happens in the Landing that can't happen in a decent park - watching fireworks, concerts, etc. It's not like those people are there shopping.

I'm not saying we SHOULD build a park - but that Landing is shit. There's nothing there and it's serving no real purpose as it is. I don't think a photo of a bunch of drunks watching something is necessarily a good case for the Landing's continued existence - a picture of the empty courtyard is more accurate, as it's empty the vast majority of the time.

You're missing several of the points here. First, shit or not, it's not a matter of waving a wand and turning the Landing into a park. The current proposal is for spending $18 million, on a building that's assessed at $4 million and that no one else is trying to bid on, just to buy and demolish it, and then spending however many additional millions it would take to turn it into a park. And then to subsidize an equivalent venue a mile away.

Of that money, $1.5 million is to buy out leases to close some of the only businesses in Downtown that are open at night and on weekends.

And then, there's no indication that there will be events at this park. Everything points to the events shifting a mile away to Lot J.

I think you completely missed my point.

I don't think a park is a good idea or a good use of the space. I just think the Landing isn't much to miss. If there was a plan to do something worthwhile with the Landing, then great. But hosting an event every once in a while isn't really doing much of anything. It's easy to post a picture of a rammed courtyard and give the impression that the Landing was vibrant and happening - but it wasn't.

I'd like to see some sort of development where the picture is an accurate reflection of the weekly goings on in the place - not an exception to the rule.

[Kerry]

If a park is going to be anything other than a passive park (which is 100% of the parks in Jax) then the City better get ready for a 9 figure price tag.  Oklahoma City spent over $200,000,000 on their new downtown parks and Tulsa just dropped $465,000,000 on their new riverfront park - yes $465 million.

Tulsa Gathering Place
https://www.gatheringplace.org/

Oklahoma City Myriad Gardens
https://oklahomacitybotanicalgardens.com/

Oklahoma City Scissortail Park
https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/projects/downtown-public-park

Jax is so far behind the rest of America it isn't even funny anymore.  And yes, those parks are way larger than the Landing site, which is yet another signs of how far behind Jax is.  We shouldn't even be talking about a downtown park this small.

[Adam White]

If a park is going to be anything other than a passive park (which is 100% of the parks in Jax) then the City better get ready for a 9 figure price tag.  Oklahoma City spent over $200,000,000 on their new downtown parks and Tulsa just dropped $465,000,000 on their new riverfront park - yes $465 million.

Tulsa Gathering Place
https://www.gatheringplace.org/

Oklahoma City Myriad Gardens
https://oklahomacitybotanicalgardens.com/

Oklahoma City Scissortail Park
https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/projects/downtown-public-park

Jax is so far behind the rest of America it isn't even funny anymore.  And yes, those parks are way larger than the Landing site, which is yet another signs of how far behind Jax is.

A park just seems like it will end up as another un-maintained wasteland downtown. And I hate to say it, but once the homeless start hanging out there, it will seem even more unattractive to most city residents.

The Landing sucks - and has for a long time. But I don't think a park is the answer.

[Tacachale]

Such a beautiful space, with so much untapped potential, we'll miss her when she's gone.

What are the people in that photo doing? If they're watcing a live band or something, there's no reason why that couldn't happen in a park. Nothing too worthwhile happens in the Landing that can't happen in a decent park - watching fireworks, concerts, etc. It's not like those people are there shopping.

I'm not saying we SHOULD build a park - but that Landing is shit. There's nothing there and it's serving no real purpose as it is. I don't think a photo of a bunch of drunks watching something is necessarily a good case for the Landing's continued existence - a picture of the empty courtyard is more accurate, as it's empty the vast majority of the time.

You're missing several of the points here. First, shit or not, it's not a matter of waving a wand and turning the Landing into a park. The current proposal is for spending $18 million, on a building that's assessed at $4 million and that no one else is trying to bid on, just to buy and demolish it, and then spending however many additional millions it would take to turn it into a park. And then to subsidize an equivalent venue a mile away.

Of that money, $1.5 million is to buy out leases to close some of the only businesses in Downtown that are open at night and on weekends.

And then, there's no indication that there will be events at this park. Everything points to the events shifting a mile away to Lot J.

I think you completely missed my point.

I don't think a park is a good idea or a good use of the space. I just think the Landing isn't much to miss. If there was a plan to do something worthwhile with the Landing, then great. But hosting an event every once in a while isn't really doing much of anything. It's easy to post a picture of a rammed courtyard and give the impression that the Landing was vibrant and happening - but it wasn't.

I'd like to see some sort of development where the picture is an accurate reflection of the weekly goings on in the place - not an exception to the rule.

The Landing does get crowds like that some of the time. It also has several businesses that are open nights and weekends as well as concerts in the courtyard. The current plans as we've heard them would ensure that none of that happens in this space at any time.

[Kerry]

If a park is going to be anything other than a passive park (which is 100% of the parks in Jax) then the City better get ready for a 9 figure price tag.  Oklahoma City spent over $200,000,000 on their new downtown parks and Tulsa just dropped $465,000,000 on their new riverfront park - yes $465 million.

Tulsa Gathering Place
https://www.gatheringplace.org/

Oklahoma City Myriad Gardens
https://oklahomacitybotanicalgardens.com/

Oklahoma City Scissortail Park
https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/projects/downtown-public-park

Jax is so far behind the rest of America it isn't even funny anymore.  And yes, those parks are way larger than the Landing site, which is yet another signs of how far behind Jax is.

A park just seems like it will end up as another un-maintained wasteland downtown. And I hate to say it, but once the homeless start hanging out there, it will seem even more unattractive to most city residents.

The Landing sucks - and has for a long time. But I don't think a park is the answer.

Yea, building another park in Jax seems fruitless.  We can't even properly maintain what we already have so adding more to maintain seems like it will only make the situation worse.  And yes, Jax has to do something about the homeless.  As I said in another thread - other cities seem to be able to do it successfully.

I wonder if the Landing closing (and the City propping up Lot J) will have a chilling effect on already announced hotel developments near-by.

[Tacachale]

^This. I couldn't have said it better myself!

Btw, for those demanding a park, why is there no focus on the Landing's East Lot? It's been a waterfront surface parking lot ever since the city's historic public fish market was razed back in the 1950s for revitalization and redevelopment by the Haydon Burns administration. If COJ has $18 million to light on fire, a nice park could be built there for that price tag.

That would be a nice spot for a park, under present conditions. Meaning, if there were still some kind of big facility drawing foot traffic across the street rather than just a bunch of office buildings...

[Adam White]

Such a beautiful space, with so much untapped potential, we'll miss her when she's gone.

What are the people in that photo doing? If they're watcing a live band or something, there's no reason why that couldn't happen in a park. Nothing too worthwhile happens in the Landing that can't happen in a decent park - watching fireworks, concerts, etc. It's not like those people are there shopping.

I'm not saying we SHOULD build a park - but that Landing is shit. There's nothing there and it's serving no real purpose as it is. I don't think a photo of a bunch of drunks watching something is necessarily a good case for the Landing's continued existence - a picture of the empty courtyard is more accurate, as it's empty the vast majority of the time.

You're missing several of the points here. First, shit or not, it's not a matter of waving a wand and turning the Landing into a park. The current proposal is for spending $18 million, on a building that's assessed at $4 million and that no one else is trying to bid on, just to buy and demolish it, and then spending however many additional millions it would take to turn it into a park. And then to subsidize an equivalent venue a mile away.

Of that money, $1.5 million is to buy out leases to close some of the only businesses in Downtown that are open at night and on weekends.

And then, there's no indication that there will be events at this park. Everything points to the events shifting a mile away to Lot J.

I think you completely missed my point.

I don't think a park is a good idea or a good use of the space. I just think the Landing isn't much to miss. If there was a plan to do something worthwhile with the Landing, then great. But hosting an event every once in a while isn't really doing much of anything. It's easy to post a picture of a rammed courtyard and give the impression that the Landing was vibrant and happening - but it wasn't.

I'd like to see some sort of development where the picture is an accurate reflection of the weekly goings on in the place - not an exception to the rule.

The Landing does get crowds like that some of the time. It also has several businesses that are open nights and weekends as well as concerts in the courtyard. The current plans as we've heard them would ensure that none of that happens in this space at any time.

Again, my post has nothing to do with the current plans. It was a response to the picture. But okay.