Residence Inn by Marriott's revised plans for Brooklyn

[thelakelander]

The big deal was the big picture of desiring Brooklyn to be walkable.  In reality, it will be a suburban style spin of new urbanism with every project having a bit of surface parking. Accepting its autocentric fate, the hotel site design is completely fine.

[jaxnyc79]

This site plan is yet another example of prioritizing cars over pedestrians right in the zone of Jacksonville defined as downtown, and in eliminating Price, yet another assault on the urban grid-patterned streets in Brooklyn. 

If a freaking review board can't defend an urban design principle as basic as direct sidewalk-access to the buildings and uses lining the street, then I question whether the Board should exist at all.  Without conviction when a proposal challenges principle, then the Board has shown itself to be an empty bureaucratic shell taking up time and resources for development projects by developers who will have their way in the end anyway. 

Downtown Jax is, for the most part, a chronic under-performer, and sadly, an embarrassment to its peer group.  Its leaders look for expensive gimmicks, while foregoing a relatively cheap adherence to basic design principles and inexpensive features to make its citizens and tourists want to be and linger downtown.  There are a handful of good projects happening currently that I believe will actually materialize, but I do believe many of the announcements will NOT materialize, and downtown Jax will continue to lag its peer group for at least another generation.  I hope I'm wrong.

I also believe the city is relying on an incentives framework to get projects built and lots developed; however, on their own, these projects do very little to enhance the holistic branding and place-making needed in and around downtown to make it a go-to destination for the people of the region and the region's visitors.  I'd probably prioritize the Emerald Necklace and upgrading a bunch of other assets of the core versus subsidizing housing for middle class downtown dwellers.  Make the core a draw with well-maintained and well-designed features and amenities for ALL to enjoy, and the numbers will make sense for developer interests without taxpayer direct costs and opportunity costs.

[ProjectMaximus]

I believe that Alex Coley is sincere in his desire to see Brooklyn become vibrant and walkable (eg advocating the Riverside Ave road diet)

So why can't he talk some sense into the DDRB?

[jaxnyc79]

I believe that Alex Coley is sincere in his desire to see Brooklyn become vibrant and walkable (eg advocating the Riverside Ave road diet)

So why can't he talk some sense into the DDRB?

Exactly my point - why spend all this money on a road diet, if things are getting built with designs and layouts that encourage mobility by car.  There's no design incentive for people to be and stay on foot, and they'll continue to come to the area in their autos, and a road diet will end up frustrating the car cluster. 

[Charles Hunter]

According to this article - http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180831/road-diet-planned-for-jacksonvilles-soutel-drive-raises-concerns

Mayor Lenny Curry's proposed budget also contains $2.2 million to undertake a road diet for a stretch of Park Street in the Brooklyn neighborhood, a plan that grew out of a study done by the Downtown Investment Authority about making streets in fast-developing Brooklyn more friendly for walking and bicycling.

That study, done last year, also examined road diets for Riverside Avenue and Forest Street where they run through the Brooklyn neighborhood, but Park Street between Forest Street and Stonewall Street is the only one that made the cut for funding so far.

Most of the article is about neighborhood opposition to a proposed road diet on Soutel Drive.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I believe that Alex Coley is sincere in his desire to see Brooklyn become vibrant and walkable (eg advocating the Riverside Ave road diet)

So why can't he talk some sense into the DDRB?

Exactly my point - why spend all this money on a road diet, if things are getting built with designs and layouts that encourage mobility by car.  There's no design incentive for people to be and stay on foot, and they'll continue to come to the area in their autos, and a road diet will end up frustrating the car cluster.

Builders/Developers are typically going to build to the minimum requirement to stretch their profits. 

The simple fix:  Redefine the minimum. 

Not sure why this is so hard.

Case in point - Jax had a solid plan to put money back into the communities that were being developed, but that plan was axed, because, "TheY won'T BuiLd if We chargE thEm FeeS..."  Meanwhile in SJC - Impact fees!  Impact fees everywhere.  And they were seeing record growth.

***sorry for speaking in meme, but it's been a long day.

[thelakelander]

From what I can tell, the minimum (in downtown) is fine.  Applicants just ask for exceptions and variances.

[thelakelander]

Strange enough, the old site plan was better than final, in terms of the building being closer to Magnolia:



The big difference in the two is the final is more auto-friendly. Guest can drive through the parking lot without having to back up.



https://residentnews.net/2018/08/02/proposed-hotel-in-brooklyn-faces-challenges-adjacent-property-hold-outs/

[Tacachale]

Well, reopening Oak is good. The rest is terrible. Brickbats to DDRB.

[jaxnyc79]

Well, reopening Oak is good. The rest is terrible. Brickbats to DDRB.

Based on the conceptual rendering in the article, it appears as though there has never a plan placing the building right on the sidewalk lining Magnolia.  It looks like part of the building footprint now extends to Oak Street at this point.  I've not actually walked those streets in Brooklyn, but is there an expectation that Oak will be more of a pedestrian draw than Magnolia?  Also, are the streets in Brooklyn actually urbanized?  Meaning lined with sufficient sidewalks and curbsides, or is the city relying on developers to do this as redevelopment moves along?

[Charles Hunter]

From looking at Google aerials, it looks like the sidewalks are hit or miss.  It's been awhile since I've driven through Brooklyn, but I suspect that even where there are sidewalks, they aren't in very good shape, having been in a neglected part of Jacksonville.

[jaxnyc79]

Also, when it comes to closing down a street and consolidating blocks, where else has the developer gone to get approval for this?  Surely that's not a decision that simply sits with the DDRB - seems like imbalanced assignment of authority.

[Charles Hunter]

The entity wanting to permanently close a city street applies to the Public Works Dept. and pays a fee to the Tax Collector.  Public Works then reviews the application, and circulates to other City and State agencies. If there is no objection, it goes to City Council, which must approve all street closures. https://library.municode.com/fl/jacksonville/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITXXIPUWOUT_CH744STCORE_S744.104STCLAP

[jaxnyc79]

The entity wanting to permanently close a city street applies to the Public Works Dept. and pays a fee to the Tax Collector.  Public Works then reviews the application, and circulates to other City and State agencies. If there is no objection, it goes to City Council, which must approve all street closures. https://library.municode.com/fl/jacksonville/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITXXIPUWOUT_CH744STCORE_S744.104STCLAP

Ah, so there is still a chance to contest some aspect of this plan?

[MusicMan]

Say what you want about the design, this will make a ton of money at this location.