Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018

[Kerry]

And also don't forget, the other events, FL/GA, Bowl Game, Monster Jam, US Soccer and whatever else have nothing to do with the Jaguars and Khan.  They make nothing on those events, thats all city.  So the clubs and scoreboards etc are a benefit to the city.

Are you sure?

http://www.jacksonville.com/metro/business/2017-07-08/jaguars-bold-events-bring-unique-business-twist-downtown-jacksonville

Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan has long had multiple business operations, but one of his newest ventures, Bold Events LLC, reaches well beyond the team's operations — a unique business angle that most NFL franchises simply don't have.

...

But Capener said Khan's initiative with Bold Events basically inserts the Jaguars franchise as the controlling entity over events at the stadium that is still technically owned by the city of Jacksonville
...

In 2015, the Jaguars reached an agreement with the city on the lease stipulations for the property including EverBank Field. Under the plan approved by the City Council, the Jaguars and Khan's company, which was then known as American Thunder LLC and now called Bold Events, would cover operating costs for the amphitheater (Daily's Place) and flex field (Jaguars indoor practice facility) venues and keep all ticket, concession and other revenues earned from events, except for a ticket and parking surcharge that the city would keep. The city would own both new venues.


The idea is to make the stadium area a more popular hub of activity that far exceeds its current use. And, of course, create more revenue.

In the process, Bold Events has become the controlling entity at a venue still technically owned by the city, not the Jaguars.

Sooner or later everyone needs to realize the Jags are a cancer.  Then when the Jags do relocate to London guess who still gets all the stadium money in Jax?

[Steve]

And also don't forget, the other events, FL/GA, Bowl Game, Monster Jam, US Soccer and whatever else have nothing to do with the Jaguars and Khan.  They make nothing on those events, thats all city.  So the clubs and scoreboards etc are a benefit to the city.

Are you sure?

http://www.jacksonville.com/metro/business/2017-07-08/jaguars-bold-events-bring-unique-business-twist-downtown-jacksonville

Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan has long had multiple business operations, but one of his newest ventures, Bold Events LLC, reaches well beyond the team's operations — a unique business angle that most NFL franchises simply don't have.

...

But Capener said Khan's initiative with Bold Events basically inserts the Jaguars franchise as the controlling entity over events at the stadium that is still technically owned by the city of Jacksonville
...

In 2015, the Jaguars reached an agreement with the city on the lease stipulations for the property including EverBank Field. Under the plan approved by the City Council, the Jaguars and Khan's company, which was then known as American Thunder LLC and now called Bold Events, would cover operating costs for the amphitheater (Daily's Place) and flex field (Jaguars indoor practice facility) venues and keep all ticket, concession and other revenues earned from events, except for a ticket and parking surcharge that the city would keep. The city would own both new venues.


The idea is to make the stadium area a more popular hub of activity that far exceeds its current use. And, of course, create more revenue.

In the process, Bold Events has become the controlling entity at a venue still technically owned by the city, not the Jaguars.

Sooner or later everyone needs to realize the Jags are a cancer.  Then when the Jags do relocate to London guess who still gets all the stadium money in Jax?

Please explain why they are a cancer. I'd say pension liability is a cancer.

[Kerry]

Please explain why they are a cancer. I'd say pension liability is a cancer.

Because the taxpayers are fronting all the cost while permanently giving the profits to the Jags.  Jags get what they want in civic negotiations because the politicians are afraid of the fan base.  This isn't how local government is supposed to work.

Funny you bring up the pension because that problem exists for the same reason - city government writing check and making promises the taxpayers can't cash and can't keep.  Then who gets held accountable for the debacle?  Certainly not the people responsible.

[Steve]

Please explain why they are a cancer. I'd say pension liability is a cancer.

Because the taxpayers are fronting all the cost while permanently giving the profits to the Jags.  Jags get what they want in civic negotiations because the politicians are afraid of the fan base.  This isn't how local government is supposed to work.

Funny you bring up the pension because that problem exists for the same reason - city government writing check and making promises the taxpayers can't cash and can't keep.  Then who gets held accountable for the debacle?  Certainly not the people responsible.

Please explain how a 50/50 split of the costs is "fronting all of the costs"

[Kerry]

It isn't 50/50, but I'll admit it isn't 100/0 either.  We do seem to pick up a large portion of expenses the team specifically benefits from while they get to buy into projects that produce revenue outside of the Jags core business.  That isn't a good deal for the City.  The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City, but will we see any of that money when the team is sold someday?  Nope - that is public debt for private wealth creation at its worst.

[remc86007]

^Doesn't the city still own the buildings and the improvements? Don't you think the city benefits by having the team here? I think there are far worse examples of public money creating private wealth.

[KenFSU]

The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City.

*Tripled, if we're counting.

[Lostwave]

Are you sure?

Sooner or later everyone needs to realize the Jags are a cancer.  Then when the Jags do relocate to London guess who still gets all the stadium money in Jax?

Yes I am sure.  Your quote is about bold events and the amphitheater, not the stadium.  The events I was talking about were all in the football stadium.  Your opinion is your opinion about football and cancer, you can choose to like or not like either.  I am just giving you facts.

[Kerry]

^Doesn't the city still own the buildings and the improvements? Don't you think the city benefits by having the team here? I think there are far worse examples of public money creating private wealth.

Thanks for the reminder - we are responsible for all upkeep and maintenance.  No cost sharing there.

Does the City benefit from the team?  In my opinion that answer is No - it doesn't.  Do individual citizens benefit, yes the do.

[Steve]

It isn't 50/50, but I'll admit it isn't 100/0 either.  We do seem to pick up a large portion of expenses the team specifically benefits from while they get to buy into projects that produce revenue outside of the Jags core business.  That isn't a good deal for the City.  The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City, but will we see any of that money when the team is sold someday?  Nope - that is public debt for private wealth creation at its worst.

Well, if we're talking about the latest round, the Jaguars spent over $90M, and the COJ's contribution was capped at $45M. That seems quite a lot like 50/50 to me.

That aside, there are an incredible number of indirect benefits to having the team here, in things like national exposure and quality of life. On game day, there are 65k in the Jacksonville area doing one thing, and a couple hundred thousand watching it on TV. Find me any other thing in Jacksonville where about 20% of the Metro Area is doing the exact same thing.

From a perspective thing when you think about other cities, the largest MSA without either a team in the four major sports is Austin, Texas. They are a bit of an exception as they have Texas' flagship public university. After that is Virginia Beach-Norfolk, then Richmond, then Louisville. While I'd certainly wouldn't mind having the economic growth of Austin, I definitely don't want to be in Richmond's or Norfolk's shoes in terms of growth.

I definitely think the Jaguars deserve a portion of the credit for the economic growth.

[Steve]

^Doesn't the city still own the buildings and the improvements? Don't you think the city benefits by having the team here? I think there are far worse examples of public money creating private wealth.

Thanks for the reminder - we are responsible for all upkeep and maintenance.  No cost sharing there.

Does the City benefit from the team?  In my opinion that answer is No - it doesn't.  Do individual citizens benefit, yes the do.

Again, not true. Much of the club renovations were for maintenance, not aesthetics. For example, the club air conditioners barely worked in the last couple years-they were 24 years old so not shocking. The Jaguars paid HALF of the bill. Again I ask, how is that not splitting costs?

[Lostwave]

It isn't 50/50, but I'll admit it isn't 100/0 either.  We do seem to pick up a large portion of expenses the team specifically benefits from while they get to buy into projects that produce revenue outside of the Jags core business.  That isn't a good deal for the City.  The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City, but will we see any of that money when the team is sold someday?  Nope - that is public debt for private wealth creation at its worst.

Well, if we're talking about the latest round, the Jaguars spent over $90M, and the COJ's contribution was capped at $45M. That seems quite a lot like 50/50 to me.

That aside, there are an incredible number of indirect benefits to having the team here, in things like national exposure and quality of life. On game day, there are 65k in the Jacksonville area doing one thing, and a couple hundred thousand watching it on TV. Find me any other thing in Jacksonville where about 20% of the Metro Area is doing the exact same thing.

From a perspective thing when you think about other cities, the largest MSA without either a team in the four major sports is Austin, Texas. They are a bit of an exception as they have Texas' flagship public university. After that is Virginia Beach-Norfolk, then Richmond, then Louisville. While I'd certainly wouldn't mind having the economic growth of Austin, I definitely don't want to be in Richmond's or Norfolk's shoes in terms of growth.

I definitely think the Jaguars deserve a portion of the credit for the economic growth.

I wish this site had a "Like" button.

[Adam White]

It isn't 50/50, but I'll admit it isn't 100/0 either.  We do seem to pick up a large portion of expenses the team specifically benefits from while they get to buy into projects that produce revenue outside of the Jags core business.  That isn't a good deal for the City.  The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City, but will we see any of that money when the team is sold someday?  Nope - that is public debt for private wealth creation at its worst.

Well, if we're talking about the latest round, the Jaguars spent over $90M, and the COJ's contribution was capped at $45M. That seems quite a lot like 50/50 to me.

You may wish to revisit your math.

[Kerry]

Yes I am sure.  Your quote is about bold events and the amphitheater, not the stadium.  The events I was talking about were all in the football stadium.  Your opinion is your opinion about football and cancer, you can choose to like or not like either.  I am just giving you facts.

Well, I kind of look at all the Khan enterprises as a collective unit.  They are only divided up for contract, tax and accounting reasons but for all practical purposes - they are all one entity.  They all have the same mission.

[Adam White]

While I'd certainly wouldn't mind having the economic growth of Austin, I definitely don't want to be in Richmond's or Norfolk's shoes in terms of growth.

I definitely think the Jaguars deserve a portion of the credit for the economic growth.

Maybe their lack of economic growth is because they're in VA. Or maybe it's because they start with letters that come later in the alphabet. Both 'hypothoses' are just as reasonable as randomly assuming that the presence of a professional football team is the reason for purported better growth on the part of Jax.