Six shopping centers preparing to make a comeback

[Metro Jacksonville]

Six shopping centers preparing to make a comeback



2018 could be the year of aging shopping centers making a comeback across Jacksonville. Here's six projects promising to breathe life into older inner ring suburban areas of Jacksonville.

Read More: https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2018-jan-six-shopping-centers-preparing-to-make-a-comeback

[jaxnyc79]

I sense that there are many factors working against these aging shopping centers.  When they were built, they were, in some respect, quasi-regional draws.  Now, they can probably only pull patrons from nearby neighborhoods.  Unless there's some brand new, compelling retailer that's new to the region that they can now sign up for their refurbished centers, these centers most likely need to be a fraction of their current sizes, unless a great deal more residential density is built in and around the centers.  Also, there's probably just a lot less need for big box retail in the future.

Jax shopping centers don't age well at all.  These strip centers are vast seas of parking lots with the stores themselves sitting deep in the lots and massive pole signs out front.  With today's design and landscaping standards, will the brand new centers of 2017/2018 die much more gracefully?

[Snaketoz]

This is good news. Not only visually, but is good for our local economy. I'm an Amazon Prime member who has spent a fortune over the years buying stuff I should have purchased locally.  I plan to allow my Prime membership to expire and not renew.  I have noticed the service and the quality of Amazon to tank lately.  More and more the 2 day delivery is actually 3 or 4 days.  When I do receive my orders more times than not if it's a heavy item, it's beat up and hanging out of the box.  The items they sell that have an attractive price are absolute junk. I was a sucker long enough.  I used the ratings to determine which item was best only to learn of "Fakespot", a website that checks the value of reviews.  Many are fake.  What happens when Amazon puts all the brick and mortar stores out of business?  I plan to go back to buying local.  I can see the item, check that it's undamaged, all the while helping our neighbors, our city, and ourselves.

[thelakelander]

Amazon isn't putting most brick and mortars out of business. Contrary to popular belief, the country saw a net +4,000 new store openings in 2017. For every chain that closed locations, another 2.7 are in expansion mode. The struggling chains making the headlines just happen to be well known traditional one-size-fits-all brands like Sears, Toys R Us and Macys. Others like ULTA, Dollar General, Ross, Aldi, etc. are growing like gangbusters. You'll most likely see most of these revamped centers end up with some of these chains as new tenants.

[Tacachale]

^Amazon's not helping, but it's not the only culprit. Many of the big chains are unprofitable for unrelated reasons. And groceries, restaurants and entertainment are growing. It's more a matter of the retail sector evolving to accommodate changes in buying habits and technology than anything.

[Snaketoz]

Amazon isn't putting most brick and mortars out of business. Contrary to popular belief, the country saw a net +4,000 new store openings in 2017. For every chain that closed locations, another 2.7 are in expansion mode. The struggling chains making the headlines just happen to be well known traditional one-size-fits-all brands like Sears, Toys R Us and Macys. Others like ULTA, Dollar General, Ross, Aldi, etc. are growing like gangbusters. You'll most likely see most of these revamped centers end up with some of these chains as new tenants.

Can you please give us data and sources to back your post?  I don't know where you got your info, but it goes 180 from what I've been reading.  I'll gladly give you my sources.  Barron's, CNN, Forbe's, the street, etc.  Amazon is growing at a phenomenal rate also...Amazon's gross merchandise value (GMV) sales surpassed $48 billion in Q2, a $12+ billion or 34% increase YoY. Many stores have waited too long to fight back.  Many of the stores/businesses that haven't been ran over by Amazon, are now being taken over by Amazon. They are just getting into the grocery game.  Competition helps consumers more than the sizes of companies that sell to them.  I worry that we may get into a situation where the only two stores we have to choose from will be Walmart and Amazon, until Amazon acquires Walmart.

[thelakelander]

Here's one from a few months back:

The total net increase of stores for 2017 is 4,080, including retail and restaurants. Core retail segments will see a net gain of 1,326 stores, while table-service and fast-food restaurants are adding a net of 2,754 locations. In total, chains are opening a net 14,239 stores and closing 10,123 stores.

http://www.ihlservices.com/news/analyst-corner/2017/08/retailers-opening-over-4000-stores-in-2017/


Here's another: https://stores.org/2017/12/04/looking-forward/

[Snaketoz]

Here's one from a few months back:

The total net increase of stores for 2017 is 4,080, including retail and restaurants. Core retail segments will see a net gain of 1,326 stores, while table-service and fast-food restaurants are adding a net of 2,754 locations. In total, chains are opening a net 14,239 stores and closing 10,123 stores.

http://www.ihlservices.com/news/analyst-corner/2017/08/retailers-opening-over-4000-stores-in-2017/


Here's another: https://stores.org/2017/12/04/looking-forward/

I'm not really including restaurants in my posts.  I'm talking about Amazon and it's effects on retail.  I agree, Amazon is not the end of the world.  I blame myself and people who are too lazy and too indifferent to think about what is happening today.  Stores aren't giving customers what they want, and customers are accepting trashy goods, indifferent service, and price to mean everything in their lives.  I'm blaming the existing stores out there that are allowing amazon and others to take away, with little resistance, everything that we have known.  I'm elderly, maybe I don't get it.  I remember going to stores and having actual full time employees help me.  I like to see and feel what I'm buying.  I think stores need to wise up and fight.  Look at the once big companies that were once held in high esteem, that have failed.  Many I'm sure felt they were too big and too old to fail. They didn't innovate and are either gone or in trouble. Some examples: JC Penney, Sears, KMart, Xerox, Blockbuster, Borders, Polaroid, Winn-Dixie, Barnes and Noble.  I'm not blaming only Amazon, but these companies who hired CEOs for millions of dollars and huge golden parachutes, to fight these newcomers with chintzy merchandise, and part time uncaring clerks, and little inovation.  Home Depot, Lowe's, and Ace Hardware are fighting back and succeeding.  I recently bought a TV from Best Buy instead of Amazon and I'm glad I did.  I got to see the tv, took it home and knew if were defective I could return it to the store.  I'm glad that maybe for just awhile BestBuy is going to make it.  I just hope that some people who don't really think about the way things are going, will.

[thelakelander]

It's getting more difficult to totally separate them into different categories. A Chipotle can build out the same space as a T-Mobile in a retail center. A Cracker Barrel is a restaurant and a retailer. A craft brewery is a manufacturer and bar, restaurant, retailer, etc. This is the new market we now live in. Retailers that can't adjust to modern trends typically end up dying. Same goes with the restaurants. Applebees struggles but Metro Diner has lines out of the door and continues to expand.

Sears and KMart of today are simply the JM Fields and Zarye of yesterday. Winn-Dixie is simply the Pantry Pride and Pic N Save of the 1980s and early 1990s. On the other hand, a new crop of retailers and restaurants are doing many of the things you've mentioned and they happen to be the ones that are expanding now. Even Amazon has started to aggressively invest in brick and mortars now.

[Snaketoz]

It's getting more difficult to totally separate them into different categories. A Chipotle can build out the same space as a T-Mobile in a retail center. A Cracker Barrel is a restaurant and a retailer. A craft brewery is a manufacturer and bar, restaurant, retailer, etc. This is the new market we now live in. Retailers that can't adjust to modern trends typically end up dying. Same goes with the restaurants. Applebees struggles but Metro Diner has lines out of the door and continues to expand.

Sears and KMart of today are simply the JM Fields and Zarye of yesterday. Winn-Dixie is simply the Pantry Pride and Pic N Save of the 1980s and early 1990s. On the other hand, a new crop of retailers and restaurants are doing many of the things you've mentioned and they happen to be the ones that are expanding now. Even Amazon has started to aggressively invest in brick and mortars now.

What is everyone doing with all the time they are saving?  You order online, eat fast food, get food thru a drive-thru window, and buy only imported goods.  I know what you are saying, it's that I think we don't think much of our choices.  after all, thinking to so much of a hassle.  If we send all of our money to Seattle or Bentonville, why should anyone expect a decent job in Jacksonville?  Economics is really so simple.  We do everything we can to try to disprove that for an economy to prosper, the people contributing and receiving from it, must be able to afford to purchase the goods and services available.  We take for granted we have dismantled our ability to manufacture goods.  We are dependent on others to produce goods we can afford.  We are depending on others such as China for a great deal of investment in the US to stay afloat.  We are our own worst enemy.  My New Year's resolution is to buy local, purchase US goods when available, and shop at locally owned stores when possible.  We are just helping the downfall of our society to do other wise. The last of American made appliances are quickly disappearing.  GE appliance are now made by Chinese company Haier.  Why, because American working families can't afford to buy our own goods.  WE are almost entirely dependent on Asia for everything we buy.  Allowing Amazon to help in this process is moronic.  I hope these shopping centers thrive.  Maybe someone will try an American-made store.  I'd buy!  I'm hearing we are even depending on Asia for our electronic components for weapon systems.  Can anyone see the logic in that?

[jaxnyc79]

Amazon isn't putting most brick and mortars out of business. Contrary to popular belief, the country saw a net +4,000 new store openings in 2017. For every chain that closed locations, another 2.7 are in expansion mode. The struggling chains making the headlines just happen to be well known traditional one-size-fits-all brands like Sears, Toys R Us and Macys. Others like ULTA, Dollar General, Ross, Aldi, etc. are growing like gangbusters. You'll most likely see most of these revamped centers end up with some of these chains as new tenants.

Amazon not necessarily putting brick-and-mortar RETAIL out of business, but it's dimming their prospects.  There's still "growth" among brick-and-mortar retail, but the growth is decelerating, and the gap between brick-and-mortar retail and Amazon is widening.  It's safe to assume that the brick-and-mortar that survive will survive because they create a robust digital presence and become online firms to adapt to changing consumer behavior.  Some select retail products may escape this trend, but people want to shop online and real estate strategies focused on big box retail are and will continue to struggle, if the current trend persists.

Amazon versus Costco Anecdote:

An Amazon Prime member for about five years, she found herself rarely going to Costco and instead using the free shipping and subscription services to stock up on household necessities, making her membership to the warehouse club somewhat of a waste. "I'd rather pay a little more for paper towels right to my door than have to deal with the Costco parking lot," Blum said.

The debate between Costco and Amazon is in many ways defined by cultural and generational differences. People who have both memberships earn roughly 20% more than people with just one or the other and nearly 73% more than people who are not members of either program, according to a recent study published in the Journal of Shopper Research.

Preferences for one over the other also vary with age. "People who subscribe to Amazon Prime were more tech-savvy and tend to be a bit younger, while seniors were more likely to be a Costco," said Steve Koppitsch, a marketing professor at Bowling Green State University and a co-author of the study.

[marcuscnelson]

It's getting more difficult to totally separate them into different categories. A Chipotle can build out the same space as a T-Mobile in a retail center. A Cracker Barrel is a restaurant and a retailer. A craft brewery is a manufacturer and bar, restaurant, retailer, etc. This is the new market we now live in. Retailers that can't adjust to modern trends typically end up dying. Same goes with the restaurants. Applebees struggles but Metro Diner has lines out of the door and continues to expand.

Sears and KMart of today are simply the JM Fields and Zarye of yesterday. Winn-Dixie is simply the Pantry Pride and Pic N Save of the 1980s and early 1990s. On the other hand, a new crop of retailers and restaurants are doing many of the things you've mentioned and they happen to be the ones that are expanding now. Even Amazon has started to aggressively invest in brick and mortars now.

What is everyone doing with all the time they are saving?  You order online, eat fast food, get food thru a drive-thru window, and buy only imported goods.  I know what you are saying, it's that I think we don't think much of our choices.  after all, thinking to so much of a hassle.  If we send all of our money to Seattle or Bentonville, why should anyone expect a decent job in Jacksonville?  Economics is really so simple.  We do everything we can to try to disprove that for an economy to prosper, the people contributing and receiving from it, must be able to afford to purchase the goods and services available.  We take for granted we have dismantled our ability to manufacture goods.  We are dependent on others to produce goods we can afford.  We are depending on others such as China for a great deal of investment in the US to stay afloat.  We are our own worst enemy.  My New Year's resolution is to buy local, purchase US goods when available, and shop at locally owned stores when possible.  We are just helping the downfall of our society to do other wise. The last of American made appliances are quickly disappearing.  GE appliance are now made by Chinese company Haier.  Why, because American working families can't afford to buy our own goods.  WE are almost entirely dependent on Asia for everything we buy.  Allowing Amazon to help in this process is moronic.  I hope these shopping centers thrive.  Maybe someone will try an American-made store.  I'd buy!  I'm hearing we are even depending on Asia for our electronic components for weapon systems.  Can anyone see the logic in that?

So it seems that the problem is less that of business itself, but more of American consumers demanding cheap products, and the resulting race to the bottom in response to those demands. Sure, we could say tomorrow that we're not buying anything from Chinese factories anymore, or we're not buying produce made by Mexican migrants. But nobody wants to deal with the massively increased prices that come with those changes, and nobody wants the undesirable work those people do to prop up the western economy.

[Snaketoz]

It's getting more difficult to totally separate them into different categories. A Chipotle can build out the same space as a T-Mobile in a retail center. A Cracker Barrel is a restaurant and a retailer. A craft brewery is a manufacturer and bar, restaurant, retailer, etc. This is the new market we now live in. Retailers that can't adjust to modern trends typically end up dying. Same goes with the restaurants. Applebees struggles but Metro Diner has lines out of the door and continues to expand.

Sears and KMart of today are simply the JM Fields and Zarye of yesterday. Winn-Dixie is simply the Pantry Pride and Pic N Save of the 1980s and early 1990s. On the other hand, a new crop of retailers and restaurants are doing many of the things you've mentioned and they happen to be the ones that are expanding now. Even Amazon has started to aggressively invest in brick and mortars now.

What is everyone doing with all the time they are saving?  You order online, eat fast food, get food thru a drive-thru window, and buy only imported goods.  I know what you are saying, it's that I think we don't think much of our choices.  after all, thinking to so much of a hassle.  If we send all of our money to Seattle or Bentonville, why should anyone expect a decent job in Jacksonville?  Economics is really so simple.  We do everything we can to try to disprove that for an economy to prosper, the people contributing and receiving from it, must be able to afford to purchase the goods and services available.  We take for granted we have dismantled our ability to manufacture goods.  We are dependent on others to produce goods we can afford.  We are depending on others such as China for a great deal of investment in the US to stay afloat.  We are our own worst enemy.  My New Year's resolution is to buy local, purchase US goods when available, and shop at locally owned stores when possible.  We are just helping the downfall of our society to do other wise. The last of American made appliances are quickly disappearing.  GE appliance are now made by Chinese company Haier.  Why, because American working families can't afford to buy our own goods.  WE are almost entirely dependent on Asia for everything we buy.  Allowing Amazon to help in this process is moronic.  I hope these shopping centers thrive.  Maybe someone will try an American-made store.  I'd buy!  I'm hearing we are even depending on Asia for our electronic components for weapon systems.  Can anyone see the logic in that?

So it seems that the problem is less that of business itself, but more of American consumers demanding cheap products, and the resulting race to the bottom in response to those demands. Sure, we could say tomorrow that we're not buying anything from Chinese factories anymore, or we're not buying produce made by Mexican migrants. But nobody wants to deal with the massively increased prices that come with those changes, and nobody wants the undesirable work those people do to prop up the western economy.

I don't believe "American consumers are demanding cheap products", they have to due to being under paid in an advanced society.  What we are getting today is not what the average worker wants.  It all started with big business not wanting their profits diminished by paying a wage that would keep our economy going.  Instead of paying wages that allowed citizens to earn a wage that would let them buy the goods they produced, they artificially sent raw goods to be assembled overseas.  Good for the bigwigs, bad for the workers.  It seemed so easy to begin with.  Much greater profits, no worries about ruining the environment, no healthcare costs, no vacations or holiday pay, etc.  We are idiots.  We wonder why we have cheap imported products when we used to have the best of everything, but we allowed it.  Now it's coming home to roost.  How can an American family earning minimum wage ever be able to pay for healthcare?  A single visit to a family doctor is probably half a week's gross salary.  How can the same family afford to buy what they used to create?  Our priorities are completely screwed-up.  We don't want to help people with their health, but we want to spend $25 billion on a wall to keep foreigners from coming in to see the healthcare professionals they used to see for next to nothing?  Wouldn't that $25 billion help train a lot of American doctors or nurses?  We are living in a huge Ponzi system.    The 1% of the population that controls over 80% of all the wealth doesn't need to care.  When the Chinese are fed up and unable to afford their Chinese economy, these Ponzists will move on to Africa and exploit them.  When will we learn?

[marcuscnelson]

Uh... this is a bit of an intense conversation to be having in a thread about shopping centers, but to answer your question, it really has to come down to the people, their education, and the way they consume media and the ideas that are transferred in the process.

How can an American family earning minimum wage ever be able to pay for healthcare?

It should be by that American family, plus the millions of others, paying taxes, and our effective elected leaders directing those taxes towards a streamlined single-payer healthcare plan that just covers everyone. But people look at the lines in other countries and decide to act like the millions of people who couldn't afford healthcare before then choosing to take advantage of it is a bad thing.

We don't want to help people with their health, but we want to spend $25 billion on a wall to keep foreigners from coming in to see the healthcare professionals they used to see for next to nothing?  Wouldn't that $25 billion help train a lot of American doctors or nurses? 

It would. $25 billion is more than we spend on our entire space program per year. Also, the $18 billion figure quoted by the administration only accounts for about ~700 miles of a ~2000 mile wall. So the whole thing would likely be upwards of $50 billion. Plus, since we decide that instead of listening to our Declaration of Independence where "life" is the first of our unalienable rights that governments are formed to protect, healthcare should be a business and not a service, we just let our education system wither under the guise of "school choice."

The 1% of the population that controls over 80% of all the wealth doesn't need to care.  When the Chinese are fed up and unable to afford their Chinese economy, these Ponzists will move on to Africa and exploit them.  When will we learn?

But you can't tax them! We could be rich one day! And then we would be the ones being taxed! That would be horrible!

Anyway, like I said, fixing this mess has to start with education. You can't let people be insulated from ideas, through their own media sources or their own social circles. Exposure to the truth of our situation has to be step 1. Those people have to be engaged in the issues, and be willing to act on them.

[Snaketoz]

Nice points Marcus.  I realize I've strayed from the original topic of shopping centers, but it's all connected.  I suppose we should start an economic thread.  Cheers