RFP Proposed for Convention Center

[vicupstate]

Why would you need 350 hotel rooms when 1066 are already there?  And where are 1,700 cars going to park?

Very strange.

[FlaBoy]

Why would you need 350 hotel rooms when 1066 are already there?  And where are 1,700 cars going to park?

Very strange.

I think that would play into the 5 star hotel talk of a 4 Seasons or equivalent.

Khan's vision entails more than $500 million of private investment. At full build-out, there would be 300 to 500 condominiums and 300 to 500 apartments, plus 300,000 to 500,000 square feet of office space. It would have 150,000 to 250,000 square feet for stores and restaurants, and 200 to 500 hotel rooms. A marina would have 250 to 450 boat slips, though final design could boost the number of boat slips to 525.

"He wants to bring a really high-end hotel to Jacksonville," Jaguars executive Mark Lamping, who is working closely on Iguana's development plan, told reporters. "He wants that to be a mixed-use hotel that not only has full amenities, but also has residential (in it). We're a step closer to achieving that, but we've got many more steps ahead of us."

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2017-04-18/jaguars-owner-shad-khan-picked-develop-shipyards-property-jacksonville


As for the parking, that cannot all happen on those two parcels. Previously, the JEA Generator Station between Bay and Independent had been thrown around along with the State of Florida owned Fuller Warren Building Parking Lot for garages.

[FlaBoy]

^I think we're going to see Convention Center talk pick up considerably, starting today.

A couple days later than I thought, but:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dia-to-seek-proposals-for-downtown-riverfront-convention-center

We will see if your prediction of Khan getting involved with a hotel here, rather than by the stadium with the additional hindrances like Hart removal, plays out. Would it surprise anyone if Bold Events ends up running a new convention center with the Amphitheater for event more additional space for large conventions?

Would certainly fit with Khan and Lamping's tendency to grow impatient and piecemeal aspects of their Shipyards plan to other areas of downtown.

What's described in the RFP basically matches what was in their both their original and latest Shipyards proposal (parking garage, waterfront hotel, exhibition space, meeting rooms), but with more exhibition space. I know Khan wants a five-star hotel, possibly a Four Seasons, but Metro Park (or anywhere else on Shipyards property) isn't going to be shovel-ready for years to come.



Also wouldn't be surprised at all to see Khan make a major push in the offseason leading up to the annual State of the Franchise for the Cordish development as well, particularly with Jags business just exploding in the last month.

How it all gets paid for, that's a much bigger question.

What ever came of the Cordish discussions after the Mayor's trip? That is the area along Bay but east of where they want to move the park, correct? Wouldn't that require the Hart coming down and remediation? Or do you see them trying to move that further west as well?

It'd be on the other side of the Hart Bridge ramps. Between Everbank and the Baseball Grounds, over existing parking.

Move the Veteran Memorial Wall to a new park as discussed previously?

[KenFSU]

Rip Van Winkle will wake before any of this stuff is complete. Under no circumstance should you hold your breath.

Shipyards not clean, no plan in place for that.

Berkman II waiting for the earth to swallow it up. 

Rummell taking over 1000 days to close on a vacant lot.  And still may not.

A sincere cluster f#ck.

I think this one is different, and maybe a bit shadier than anything we've seen. IF Iguana were to get the project, you'd need to ask the question as to whether there was a secret handshake made at some point, and if so, when. Before Curry rushed to put $60 million into the 2017 budget for Coastline? Before Curry rushed to put $8 million into the 2018 budget for demolition? That's a lot of public money spent toward potentially handing a developer a layup. I like Curry, and I think Iguana may very well be the best choice, but the mayor is taking secret trips wirh Iguana, and petitioning the FDOT for money to remove the Hart ramps under blatantly false pretenses to push Khan's project. Hell, Curry's kids were on the sideline of the Steelers game Sunday as "Khan's good luck charm." I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and it's pure speculation, and I think Khan has pockets so deep and the vested interest to continue doing great things for Jax, I've just got to wonder if $70 million in public money would have been prioritized in the last 16 months for that parcel if there wasn't a handshake made somewhere with someone.

[ProjectMaximus]

Do you not think this site would be much better suited for a convention center than way out by the stadium?  We already have a convention center on the edge of downtown.

This is true, but at least there are adjacent entertainment uses and it's not isolated by itself on the edge of downtown. Slight difference. I also feel like in a healthy downtown (which we don't have but we hope to work towards) a CC would not be in the center of activity anyway. Easy walking distance from the vibrant heart of the core? yes. But not taking up multiple blocks of it. Similarly, I also like that it is not on the waterfront.

Will be interesting to see how a new convention center will tie in to Amazon's new downtown headquarters/compound.

Connected via mini flying saucers. Didn't you see the video? 

[ProjectMaximus]

Ha, just realized it IS on the waterfront...oh well. Make it look nice then!

[acme54321]

Do you not think this site would be much better suited for a convention center than way out by the stadium?  We already have a convention center on the edge of downtown.

This is true, but at least there are adjacent entertainment uses and it's not isolated by itself on the edge of downtown. Slight difference. I also feel like in a healthy downtown (which we don't have but we hope to work towards) a CC would not be in the center of activity anyway. Easy walking distance from the vibrant heart of the core? yes. But not taking up multiple blocks of it. Similarly, I also like that it is not on the waterfront.

That's the thing, with the current state of downtown this site is on the edge.  It's basically the last thing before the big gap of COJ and Maxwell House before you hit the sports district.  Berkman doesn't count.

[acme54321]

Rip Van Winkle will wake before any of this stuff is complete. Under no circumstance should you hold your breath.

Shipyards not clean, no plan in place for that.

Berkman II waiting for the earth to swallow it up. 

Rummell taking over 1000 days to close on a vacant lot.  And still may not.

A sincere cluster f#ck.

I think this one is different, and maybe a bit shadier than anything we've seen. IF Iguana were to get the project, you'd need to ask the question as to whether there was a secret handshake made at some point, and if so, when. Before Curry rushed to put $60 million into the 2017 budget for Coastline? Before Curry rushed to put $8 million into the 2018 budget for demolition? That's a lot of public money spent toward potentially handing a developer a layup. I like Curry, and I think Iguana may very well be the best choice, but the mayor is taking secret trips wirh Iguana, and petitioning the FDOT for money to remove the Hart ramps under blatantly false pretenses to push Khan's project. Hell, Curry's kids were on the sideline of the Steelers game Sunday as "Khan's good luck charm." I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and it's pure speculation, and I think Khan has pockets so deep and the vested interest to continue doing great things for Jax, I've just got to wonder if $70 million in public money would have been prioritized in the last 16 months for that parcel if there wasn't a handshake made somewhere with someone.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case.  At least backroom talks that give Khan an edge on the situation, more time to prepare and an RFP tailored to what he wants to build.

[thelakelander]

Thanks a lot to squeeze on that site. I'll be interested to see what Khan comes up with.

[jaxnyc79]

Why would you need 350 hotel rooms when 1066 are already there?  And where are 1,700 cars going to park?

Very strange.

Why are 1700 spots necessary?  Can anyone benchmark this?  Whenever I visit the core of downtown Jax, it feels overladen with parking garages already, and it seems that lately garage proposals are crowding the development pipeline.  Is the only way to revive downtown Jax to make sure people don't have to walk and engage the street any more than they would at the new Costco on Collins Avenue?

[FlaBoy]

Why would you need 350 hotel rooms when 1066 are already there?  And where are 1,700 cars going to park?

Very strange.

Why are 1700 spots necessary?  Can anyone benchmark this?  Whenever I visit the core of downtown Jax, it feels overladen with parking garages already, and it seems that lately garage proposals are crowding the development pipeline.  Is the only way to revive downtown Jax is in making sure people don't have to walk and engage the street any more than they would at the new Costco on Collins Avenue?

I don't think it is possible for that site. The Kings Avenue Garage is 1,700 and would potentially take up the whole two blocks by itself. You would have to go vertical in a big way. I just think the RFP is poorly worded. Maybe an option would to maybe take out the Annex Garage and replace it with a much bigger version (hopefully with retail) and maybe secure another site such as the JEA property as discussed.

[RattlerGator]

KenFSU, I sure as heck hope Shad is interested enough and Mark Lamping is interested enough that some conversations have been had, some open speculation shared, and some "it sure would be nice" wishful thinking openly expressed.

We need to make things happen, and the moment is now.

[KenFSU]

KenFSU, I sure as heck hope Shad is interested enough and Mark Lamping is interested enough that some conversations have been had, some open speculation shared, and some "it sure would be nice" wishful thinking openly expressed.

We need to make things happen, and the moment is now.

Totally agree, I'm not against it.

I just think there should always be transparency when public money is involved.

Frankly, I can't see many developers without the vested interested that the Jaguars have taking a chance on a somewhat risky project.

Also, I found this line from the Times-Union write up to be a little bit odd:

The property available for the development also could include the area that used to have a surface parking deck for the old county courthouse. The city is demolishing that parking area, which was built on piers over the water where the St. Johns River flows past the property.

Unless I'm reading it wrong or it's poorly written, it almost suggests that the section of Coastline currently being demo'd could eventually be rebuilt and developed on top of.

[KenFSU]

Also interesting to me how, from the Daily Record's description, the resolution/imminent RFP seems as concerned, if not more concerned, with the convention center's synergy with the Sports Complex (Everbank is a full mile to the east from the project site) than it is with the CBD (immediately adjacent to the west).

Project information in the eight-page resolution states a new convention center, hotel and parking garage would "be an immediate enhancement to the financial viability and dynamism of surrounding facilities in the Urban Core and the Sports Complex, and to the City of Jacksonville in general."

It said the DIA expects the project "will exemplify exceptional architecture that complements the vitality of downtown Jacksonville" and "function in harmony with, and support the activities and events of the Riverfront and the Sports Complex."

[jaxlongtimer]

A good convention center with parking and hotel/restaurant/entertainment complex should do well by the stadiums where it can share all those lots not being used most of the year, have a lot more room to access/build/expand (as the city grows), and be on the river.  Would also have synergies with the arena, stadium, baseball grounds, fairgrounds, Daily's Place, etc.  Note that Orlando's convention center was built miles from its downtown and it hasn't suffered.  Proper execution may be more important than location in the final analysis. 

If you put it at the old City Hall, space is much more confined, access and expansion is more limited/impossible as a result (can you see fleets of those large semi's delivering exhibition and large meeting items and materials?), and it will likely just be surrounded with more parking garages lacking retail to insure its failure  .  Building back over the water is also both expensive and destined for maintenance/storm issues for a lifetime.