Should Jacksonville sell (privatize) JEA?

[vicupstate]

Wow. You must work in his office...

All it takes is the ability to read.

Brosche is doing what should have been done from the start. The council has a committee process for most things, including topics far less important than this one.     

Thanks Vic... please show me the quotes where Curry is proposing..."attempting to steam-roll and build a momentum of inevitability".  The assumptions being made about everyone's motives is a bit hysterical...  If there is something nefarious afoot then lets see it... I for one want to know more about JEA's worth... Currys plans if any... the Boards plans etc... this infighting over an unfinished report is ridiculous...

I ignore words. Words mean nothing. Their actions show their motives and those speak pretty loudly. There was no reason to treat this issue any differently than any other matter that comes before the city. In fact it should have been MORE deliberate and methodical than anything else the city deals with. Yet, the opposite was attempted.  That was blowing up in their faces, so they are regrouping, which is good, but don't pretend that they didn't show their hand.   

[BridgeTroll]

Wow. You must work in his office...

All it takes is the ability to read.

Brosche is doing what should have been done from the start. The council has a committee process for most things, including topics far less important than this one.     

Thanks Vic... please show me the quotes where Curry is proposing..."attempting to steam-roll and build a momentum of inevitability".  The assumptions being made about everyone's motives is a bit hysterical...  If there is something nefarious afoot then lets see it... I for one want to know more about JEA's worth... Currys plans if any... the Boards plans etc... this infighting over an unfinished report is ridiculous...

The whole problem is Curry's own fault. Whether he's really neutral on the whole thing or not (I tend to doubt it), he started the attacks on Brosche when she wasn't pliant enough, and then rammed through a meeting she didn't want. How'd the administration think that was going to go? That's not a way to find consensus or persuade people. I say that as a Curry supporter.

First I really do not see much of a problem... it is politics... Is Curry really neutral?  I doubt it also but he is smartly not saying much until we have some facts(the report).  Why didn't Brosche want a meeting?  She says she wants transparency yet didn't want a meeting?  I want to see the information... ALL of it.  I want to know What Curry plans to do... if anything...

[BridgeTroll]

Wow. You must work in his office...

All it takes is the ability to read.

Brosche is doing what should have been done from the start. The council has a committee process for most things, including topics far less important than this one.     

Thanks Vic... please show me the quotes where Curry is proposing..."attempting to steam-roll and build a momentum of inevitability".  The assumptions being made about everyone's motives is a bit hysterical...  If there is something nefarious afoot then lets see it... I for one want to know more about JEA's worth... Currys plans if any... the Boards plans etc... this infighting over an unfinished report is ridiculous...

I ignore words. Words mean nothing. Their actions show their motives and those speak pretty loudly. There was no reason to treat this issue any differently than any other matter that comes before the city. In fact it should have been MORE deliberate and methodical than anything else the city deals with. Yet, the opposite was attempted.  That was blowing up in their faces, so they are regrouping, which is good, but don't pretend that they didn't show their hand.   

Ah... so no quotes.  Words mean nothing... memorable.

[Tacachale]

Wow. You must work in his office...

All it takes is the ability to read.

Brosche is doing what should have been done from the start. The council has a committee process for most things, including topics far less important than this one.     

Thanks Vic... please show me the quotes where Curry is proposing..."attempting to steam-roll and build a momentum of inevitability".  The assumptions being made about everyone's motives is a bit hysterical...  If there is something nefarious afoot then lets see it... I for one want to know more about JEA's worth... Currys plans if any... the Boards plans etc... this infighting over an unfinished report is ridiculous...

The whole problem is Curry's own fault. Whether he's really neutral on the whole thing or not (I tend to doubt it), he started the attacks on Brosche when she wasn't pliant enough, and then rammed through a meeting she didn't want. How'd the administration think that was going to go? That's not a way to find consensus or persuade people. I say that as a Curry supporter.

First I really do not see much of a problem... it is politics... Is Curry really neutral?  I doubt it also but he is smartly not saying much until we have some facts(the report).  Why didn't Brosche want a meeting?  She says she wants transparency yet didn't want a meeting?  I want to see the information... ALL of it.  I want to know What Curry plans to do... if anything...

Brosche explained why she didn't want the meeting. There already was a JEA board meeting lined up where they could give updates on the JEA evaluation. She felt the City Council meeting the Mayor wanted would be used to call a vote on the sale issue. This was because of things the mayor and his people have said - the chief of staff apparently even suggested that City Council could push the sale forward as an emergency measure.

She said she wasn't opposed to getting the conversation started in council where the auditor and public could weigh in. If the mayor wanted that (and/or wasn't feeling slighted that a meeting he requested was denied) he could have backed off and done things the usual way, without putting the council on the defensive. Instead he attacked Brosche, forced the meeting, upset Council, and drew a lot of press suggesting he was trying to push something through without public input.

I'm not saying this is much of a problem per se, except on the mayor's end. It shows that the sharp-elbowed approach isn't effective in all cases. Hopefully the administration learns from this and changes tacks.

[Tacachale]

I just wish the council had reacted like this way with the Pension "debate" instead of laying down like worthless dogs while allowing Curry to Delaney the tax payer.

LOL! You are so full of shit, Matt.

[Tacachale]

I just wish the council had reacted like this way with the Pension "debate" instead of laying down like worthless dogs while allowing Curry to Delaney the tax payer.

LOL! You are so full of shit, Matt.

You don't think the council laid down? Did you read the transcripts of those meetings? They were a joke.

On second thought. do you actually think the Curry Pension changes were good for Jacksonville? If so, I will take the "full of shit" as quite the compliment.

I should've included some winking emojis. It was partially meant in jest, a comment directed at your tendency to bloviate with not-insignificant regularity about the pension in unrelated threads. (that work?)

Neither the pension issue nor the JEA sale are black and white. When John Delaney, my father, left office, the pension was fully funded and the benefits to the cops and firefighters were perfectly reasonable. The troubles came up in subsequent years as the unions convinced the city to start adding benefits without investing more money. That came to a head in a little historical event known as the Great Recession, and just got worse after several years of failure to pass reform by the city.

Curry didn't create this problem, he inherited it, but he stepped up to try and resolve it. And there was no way of treating the problem without more money going in. Some people like to dream that it all could have been washed away by just stripping more benefits from the cops and firefighters. Even if that were a good idea (it's not), it's literally impossible. The unions have *no reason* to go along with something like that. And they don't just "lie down like worthless dogs" because our local financial geniuses think it would be cooler if they did. How much longer should we have waited around for an impossibility?

Moving back to the JEA sale, your comment seems to suggest that the Council and Curry should be fighting as a matter of course. I disagree, that just creates perpetual stalemate. Especially for something like this, which is mostly an intellectual disagreement between two sides who presumably both feel their position to be the most efficacious. It's something to sort out and move forward, not to stay at loggerheads over forever.

[thelakelander]

I-TEAM: Emails suggest city began looking for potential JEA buyers in December

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/jacksonville/emails-suggest-city-began-looking-for-potential-jea-buyers-in-December

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180221/citys-unusual-search-for-financial-adviser-could-be-tied-to-jea-sale-auditor-says

[camarocane]

I-TEAM: Emails suggest city began looking for potential JEA buyers in December

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/jacksonville/emails-suggest-city-began-looking-for-potential-jea-buyers-in-December

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180221/citys-unusual-search-for-financial-adviser-could-be-tied-to-jea-sale-auditor-says

What a tangled web we weave...

[pierre]

Gee...shocking.

And I wonder how many of the potential buyers donated to Curry's campaign or the Florida Republican Party.

[Steve]

I think Kyle Billy wrote that email in the manner that he did because it was public record.

[Steve]

With all of the craziness aside, I think it's a worthy discussion to have in the public view. Having an opportunity for a few billion dollar windfall is worth investigating. Not saying it's the right thing or not - genuinely I'm not sure (and not "I'm not sure" like Mayor Curry claims to be - legit "I'm not sure").

[BridgeTroll]

^^ This ^^ 

[vicupstate]

With all of the craziness aside, I think it's a worthy discussion to have in the public view. Having an opportunity for a few billion dollar windfall is worth investigating. Not saying it's the right thing or not - genuinely I'm not sure (and not "I'm not sure" like Mayor Curry claims to be - legit "I'm not sure").

It is worth investigating, but when all the signs point to a predetermined outcome, it taints the whole process. You can't trust what has been done thus far.

What might be beneficial in the short term might be very detrimental in the long term. That was exactly the case with Pension Reform. Kick the can down the road, and let someone else worry about it later.

While the upside MIGHT be worth it, I don't see how you can expect to sell JEA without expecting significant job losses and unquestionably less local management control and far less control over rates.     

[Tacachale]

I just wish the council had reacted like this way with the Pension "debate" instead of laying down like worthless dogs while allowing Curry to Delaney the tax payer.

LOL! You are so full of shit, Matt.

You don't think the council laid down? Did you read the transcripts of those meetings? They were a joke.

On second thought. do you actually think the Curry Pension changes were good for Jacksonville? If so, I will take the "full of shit" as quite the compliment.

I should've included some winking emojis. It was partially meant in jest, a comment directed at your tendency to bloviate with not-insignificant regularity about the pension in unrelated threads. (that work?)

Neither the pension issue nor the JEA sale are black and white. When John Delaney, my father, left office, the pension was fully funded and the benefits to the cops and firefighters were perfectly reasonable. The troubles came up in subsequent years as the unions convinced the city to start adding benefits without investing more money. That came to a head in a little historical event known as the Great Recession, and just got worse after several years of failure to pass reform by the city.

Curry didn't create this problem, he inherited it, but he stepped up to try and resolve it. And there was no way of treating the problem without more money going in. Some people like to dream that it all could have been washed away by just stripping more benefits from the cops and firefighters. Even if that were a good idea (it's not), it's literally impossible. The unions have *no reason* to go along with something like that. And they don't just "lie down like worthless dogs" because our local financial geniuses think it would be cooler if they did. How much longer should we have waited around for an impossibility?

Moving back to the JEA sale, your comment seems to suggest that the Council and Curry should be fighting as a matter of course. I disagree, that just creates perpetual stalemate. Especially for something like this, which is mostly an intellectual disagreement between two sides who presumably both feel their position to be the most efficacious. It's something to sort out and move forward, not to stay at loggerheads over forever.

Ba ha ha ha ha. I didn't know Delaney was your father. That explains your reaction! Too funny. And it certainly explains your "pension education".

I am well aware of your fathers history with the pension and his interviews regarding the 2001 agreement, amendments, and how he "left the pension". And, this financial genius says he is "full of shit"

Ok, we are on to JEA.

On a side note, If anyone ever wants to get a real pension education , I am always willing to discuss it and my fee is a coffee, preferably at a San Marco location. PM me as slots always fill up fast.

Well if a financial genius says it, it must be true. Oh, if only people had listened to San Marco Matt, it all could have been avoided!

I'll take you up on that offer of coffee, though I don't particularly want to discuss the pension - not because I think you're full of shit anymore, but because I think you're so full of financial brilliance that it would blow my simple bumpkin mind 

All other topics accepted. I'm in San Marco too.

[Tacachale]

With all of the craziness aside, I think it's a worthy discussion to have in the public view. Having an opportunity for a few billion dollar windfall is worth investigating. Not saying it's the right thing or not - genuinely I'm not sure (and not "I'm not sure" like Mayor Curry claims to be - legit "I'm not sure").

It is worth investigating, but when all the signs point to a predetermined outcome, it taints the whole process. You can't trust what has been done thus far.

What might be beneficial in the short term might be very detrimental in the long term. That was exactly the case with Pension Reform. Kick the can down the road, and let someone else worry about it later.

While the upside MIGHT be worth it, I don't see how you can expect to sell JEA without expecting significant job losses and unquestionably less local management control and far less control over rates.   

I doubt it's possible to reckon all the contingencies decades in the future. But the status quo isn't necessarily the best option just because it's the path of least resistance. Public ownership hasn't meant that JEA has always been well run or made the best decisions for the ratepayers/city. But yes, vetting any change should be thorough and in the open.