Jax is "not on the radar" as a convention site

[Bill Hoff]

Some pretty blunt input, which is/was needed. Also, recommends holding off developing a convention center umtil downtown improves as a destination.

Full story:
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2017/10/03/study-jacksonvilles-downtown-needs-enhancement.html

[Jim]

Have to subscribe (I really should anyway) to see it but I'm pretty it's not going to say a whole lot we've not been saying for years already.

[vicupstate]

Might be something a few people should read before tearing down Old City Hall and the Old Courthouse for a Convention Center.

[remc86007]

recommends holding off developing a convention center umtil downtown improves as a destination.

I think that is characterizing the situation as a chicken and egg problem unnecessarily. What is the worst thing that could happen if we built a first-rate convention center right now? Create a bad impression of Jax in some people's minds? The current: here is our convention center (train station) in a part of downtown with practically no retail in sight, and here is our large hotel nearly a mile away (without reliable transportation between the two) surely isn't preferable to a new waterfront convention center next to our largest recently renovated hotel.

Granted, I haven't read the piece as I'm not currently a subscriber. Perhaps that was addressed in the piece?

[Tacachale]

...

It isn't just the lack of a vibrant area near the meeting space that knocks Jacksonville off the convention circuit.

"The areas that were cited most frequently as challenges were walkability, the lack of a sufficient hotel package, airlift, the need to clean up downtown, safety and the overall lack of things to do," the report said. "... Over 60 percent of the planners interviewed or surveyed were not interested in Jacksonville and/or a new convention center without destination development."

...

The lack of a hotel package is something that would change immediately with the Courthouse site. Cleaning up Downtown is something that should be done anyway. Safety is a boogieman and only a problem of perception, which is subjective and arbitrary. I have a hard time seeing "airlift" as a bigger problem for us than for, say, Savannah.

Seems the real issues are the same ones we already know: walkability and lack of things to do downtown.

[chipwich]

It seems any city money would be much better spent on credits towards high density residential development in downtown.  Rooftops = retail.  Retail = things to do.  things to do spurs the need for hotels and eventually convention centers. 

A "build it and they will come"  doesn't seem practical when there are so many more tourist-oriented cities in Florida.  A good convention center would be great, but you have to give the visitors place to go downtown.  Best way to do that is to create perpetual retail demand from residents.

[Jim]

...

It isn't just the lack of a vibrant area near the meeting space that knocks Jacksonville off the convention circuit.

"The areas that were cited most frequently as challenges were walkability, the lack of a sufficient hotel package, airlift, the need to clean up downtown, safety and the overall lack of things to do," the report said. "... Over 60 percent of the planners interviewed or surveyed were not interested in Jacksonville and/or a new convention center without destination development."

...

The lack of a hotel package is something that would change immediately with the Courthouse site. Cleaning up Downtown is something that should be done anyway. Safety is a boogieman and only a problem of perception, which is subjective and arbitrary. I have a hard time seeing "airlift" as a bigger problem for us than for, say, Savannah.

Seems the real issues are the same ones we already know: walkability and lack of things to do downtown.

In other words, not much we've not been discussing here for years already.

[thelakelander]

Jax already has a convention center and events happening in it. We don't necessarily need a "new" one. We need to relocate and upgrade the existing facility. Moving it to the courthouse site and combining with the Hyatt and its meeting facilities does just that. The move basically builds in making the Elbow a better destination and frees up the Prime Osborn to bring passenger rail back downtown. This thing isn't rocket science. It should be done simultaneously with everything else DT needs.

[Tacachale]

^Well stated.

[remc86007]

What is the worst thing that could happen if we built a first-rate convention center right now?

Are you serious? How about we wasted hundreds of millions when that money could go to, oh i don't know, any of the 50 other projects that could improve downtown and actually draw visitors and tourists?

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that a convention center of decent quality would more or less pay for itself through the bed tax alone, not counting the increased sales tax revenue. I'm not aware of 50 other projects that would pay for themselves in that way.

[Todd_Parker]

If the city would stop spending money on "reports" that basically tell us what we already know, we could probably save enough to build a new convention center...and a downtown aquarium!

[Adam White]

If the city would stop spending money on "reports" that basically tell us what we already know, we could probably save enough to build a new convention center...and a downtown aquarium!

Don't forget the giant ferris wheel.

[FlaBoy]

Jax already has a convention center and events happening in it. We don't necessarily need a "new" one. We need to relocate and upgrade the existing facility. Moving it to the courthouse site and combining with the Hyatt and its meeting facilities does just that. The move basically builds in making the Elbow a better destination and frees up the Prime Osborn to bring passenger rail back downtown. This thing isn't rocket science. It should be done simultaneously with everything else DT needs.

Yes!

[vicupstate]

The existing convention center is mostly a place for events that draw locals and short distance drive-in tourists, right? The whole point is that is doesn't draw major conventions now. From the article summation posted here, just solving the hotel issue alone won't make it a destination for conventions either.

And no, the bed tax would not come close to paying for debt service on the building. This is even more true now that the Stadium is getting more of that revenue than ever.  Not to mention there would be an operating loss to boot.

[thelakelander]

The existing convention center is mostly a place for events that draw locals and short distance drive-in tourists, right? The whole point is that is doesn't draw major conventions now. From the article summation posted here, just solving the hotel issue alone won't make it a destination for conventions either.

The point I've been trying to make all these years is it doesn't need to draw "major" conventions. It needs to be better than what it is today and in a location that allows it to become a part of a larger pedestrian scale scene. Moving it next to the Hyatt isn't the only issue a move resolves. It's all about clustering, complementing uses within a compact pedestrian scale setting. Here's a few more positives that come with moving the convention center out of the old passenger rail terminal:

1. Enables the Hyatt to book larger events and more rooms.

2. Combined with the Hyatt's meeting space, you reduce the need for a full new construction convention center. All you really need is an exhibition hall, since the Hyatt already has decent sized meeting and ballroom spaces.

3. Places visitors within walking distance of the restaurants and retailers in the Elbow and the Landing. More foot traffic, even if its local, means more business for struggling downtown retailers. Right now, Prime Osborn traffic has no reason to drive the extra mile from I-95's ramps.

4. The Prime Osborn can be converted back into a passenger rail terminal, immediately adjacent to the transportation center now under construction.

5. Most affordable option for COJ, in that it allows the city to leverage the property it already owns as the public component of a P3 project.

And no, the bed tax would not come close to paying for debt service on the building. This is even more true now that the Stadium is getting more of that revenue than ever.

Correct. The bed tax is pretty much going to the Jags at this point. However, you're looking at things from a traditional convention center financing situation where the city is funding 100%. I'm not sure that is the case in this non-conventional situation.

Not to mention there would be an operating loss to boot.

All depends on the financing structure. For example, it's undetermined on if the city will end up building something or a private entity including some additional space as a part of a larger mixed-use project. If the city's financial contribution is preparing the property for redevelopment and the property itself, the financial situation changes.