Amazon $5 bil co-HQ's in play

[jaxjags]

After reading the article in the Jax Business Journal, I believe the first and probably major disqualification is air service. We do not have direct/non-stop flights to Seattle or San Francisco. I know, this could be added, but if the initial building is only .5 million sq. feet there are not enough employees at Amazon to fill daily flights. The article in the Dailey record also mentions this. Deutsche Bank, Adecco, and Ernst and Young all said better air service including direct flight to Europe would really help attract larger companies.

[chipwich]

I know airlines really cut down flights to non-hub cities after the recession.  JIA took its fair share of capacity cutbacks.  However, we have been very slow to bounce back, even as the local population expanded, the economy grew and large companies established sizable offices in the metro.

Even with a few new options this year, JIA traffic numbers are tracking slightly below last year.  Given record air traffic across the US, a good local economy, and larger population base, can anyone offer any insight as to why our local ridership numbers are so stagnant?

Lack of air service is definitely a hindrance to growth. 

[Sonic101]

Whenever I look up flights from Detroit to Jax, Orlando is typically around $75 cheaper, and that's not comparing it to the expensive DTW->JAX direct flight. I really would like to know why this is since I would much prefer JIA. Lack of competition, lack of demand, high airport fees, idk? *shrug*

[Wacca Pilatka]

I know airlines really cut down flights to non-hub cities after the recession.  JIA took its fair share of capacity cutbacks.  However, we have been very slow to bounce back, even as the local population expanded, the economy grew and large companies established sizable offices in the metro.

Even with a few new options this year, JIA traffic numbers are tracking slightly below last year.  Given record air traffic across the US, a good local economy, and larger population base, can anyone offer any insight as to why our local ridership numbers are so stagnant?

Lack of air service is definitely a hindrance to growth.

I wonder if some of it has to do with willingness to drive to Orlando for lower fares and more direct flight/international options?  When I lived in Austin, a lot of people were willing to drive to DFW for the same reasons.  Austin has grown astronomically since then, of course.

[FlaBoy]

I know airlines really cut down flights to non-hub cities after the recession.  JIA took its fair share of capacity cutbacks.  However, we have been very slow to bounce back, even as the local population expanded, the economy grew and large companies established sizable offices in the metro.

Even with a few new options this year, JIA traffic numbers are tracking slightly below last year.  Given record air traffic across the US, a good local economy, and larger population base, can anyone offer any insight as to why our local ridership numbers are so stagnant?

Lack of air service is definitely a hindrance to growth.

I wonder if some of it has to do with willingness to drive to Orlando for lower fares and more direct flight/international options?  When I lived in Austin, a lot of people were willing to drive to DFW for the same reasons.  Austin has grown astronomically since then, of course.

I think this is true in especially the southern portions of Jacksonville and St. Johns County.

[Steve]

Whenever I look up flights from Detroit to Jax, Orlando is typically around $75 cheaper, and that's not comparing it to the expensive DTW->JAX direct flight. I really would like to know why this is since I would much prefer JIA. Lack of competition, lack of demand, high airport fees, idk? *shrug*

All of this, except the high airport fees. MCO is a much more competitive market and (as a percentage) more of a leisure market. Delta has to compete with Frontier, Southwest, and Spirit out of MCO, as well as Allegiant from Sanford to a few cities in Michigan. JAX-DTW's non-stop on Delta is the only direct to DTW, and a pretty business-heavy route (Anecdotally from when I've flown it).

Similar question, and the answer to it also answers your question:
Q: Why can I stay at a Fairfield Inn for $89/night and get free Wifi, but the $600/Night St. Regis makes me pay?
A: Because they can. People Staying at the St Regis aren't budget travelers. They are either Business Travelers with REALLY good expense accounts (so $20 for internet is nothing), or Leisure Travelers who clearly have disposable income (and $20 for internet is also nothing).

[TimmyB]

Whenever I look up flights from Detroit to Jax, Orlando is typically around $75 cheaper, and that's not comparing it to the expensive DTW->JAX direct flight. I really would like to know why this is since I would much prefer JIA. Lack of competition, lack of demand, high airport fees, idk? *shrug*

I'm flying back to W Michigan for the holidays and you are correct about cheaper flights through Orlando.  Even stranger, though, if I fly from JAX to GRR through ORD, it is cheaper than if I had just flow to ORD using the exact same flight!

[Sonic101]

Honestly, I'm worried for the airport if Brightline expands to Jax and more people start taking the train to the Orlando Airport.

[Tacachale]

Honestly, I'm worried for the airport if Brightline expands to Jax and more people start taking the train to the Orlando Airport.

That is a good point. I flew out of Orlando exactly once and it didn't end up saving me money due to the cost of parking my car for a week, plus the not insubstantial inconvenience of 2-hours of driving before and after my flight. I wouldn't do it again even if it was cheaper - but if I could take a train right to the airport, why not?

On the other hand I really don't see that many people actually doing that. Brightline is and always has been a real estate venture more than an actual transportation solution. I doubt the train schedule will be regular enough to plan flights around.

[FlaBoy]

Honestly, I'm worried for the airport if Brightline expands to Jax and more people start taking the train to the Orlando Airport.

That is a good point. I flew out of Orlando exactly once and it didn't end up saving me money due to the cost of parking my car for a week, plus the not insubstantial inconvenience of 2-hours of driving before and after my flight. I wouldn't do it again even if it was cheaper - but if I could take a train right to the airport, why not?

On the other hand I really don't see that many people actually doing that. Brightline is and always has been a real estate venture more than an actual transportation solution. I doubt the train schedule will be regular enough to plan flights around.

Plus the tickets on Brightline to Orlando are not cheap either.

[thelakelander]

Brightline's headways will be every 60 minutes. However, the cost of tickets will eliminate any cost savings gained by driving to Orlando to save on air fare. As someone who has flown out of all of these airports regularly over the years, you really save money driving to Orlando when you're buying multiple tickets and you're willing to park your car off airport property. If it's just one or two people flying, you're better off going out of JAX and saving yourself the 2 hour drive.

[FlaBoy]

Brightline's headways will be every 60 minutes. However, the cost of tickets will eliminate any cost savings gained by driving to Orlando to save on air fare. As someone who has flown out of all of these airports regularly over the years, you really save money driving to Orlando when you're buying multiple tickets and you're willing to park your car off airport property. If it's just one or two people flying, you're better off going out of JAX and saving yourself the 2 hour drive.

It also depends on where you are going and direct flights. If you are flying to San Francisco, there may be cost and time savings due to layovers.

[thelakelander]

True. Last year I drove down to Orlando to take a 2 hour direct flight to Santo Domingo. Although the costs were comparable, if I flew out of Jax, the connecting flights and associated layovers would have stretched the travel time out to 11 hours.

[jaxlongtimer]

I think PHIL could be a dark horse.  Lots of high tech (birthplace of ENIAC, first digital computer and then there is Ben Franklin and his kite ) and major urban core research center (University City), robust higher education (I think second only to Boston in number of colleges/universities in the surrounding area with one Ivy League school, multiple medical and engineering schools, top notch liberal arts schools, etc.), great public transit, diverse population, full of culture, big city benefits with easier livability vs. NYC, large metro area, cheaper living than the other major NE urban centers, well connected international airport and nicely in-between NYC, WASH and BOS (via Amtrak high speed Acela WASH-PHL-NYC-BOS corridor).  Also, top tier corporate HQ's including Comcast.  Probably wouldn't hurt politically that at least 3 states (PA, NJ, and DEL) would all benefit from this spot and maybe, also MD.  One thing I believe Amazon might want to factor in is time zones, especially if it plans to grow in Europe.  This could further benefit an East Coast site.

Moody's analysis supports my quote above, picking Philadelphia and Austin as best picks!  I give Philly the nod due to geography and time zones, just like the study does .

In a new analysis published Thursday, Moody's economists Mark Zandi and Adam Ozimek found that Austin, Texas and Philadelphia meets Amazon's desires for its new HQ best, with Atlanta, Pittsburgh, and Rochester, New York not far behind.

Read it here:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/austin-philadelphia-best-places-amazons-new-headquarters-moodys-says-161422680.html

Geographic wild card

If the geography category is included, Philadelphia moves from third place to first place and Pittsburgh moves up to second place. The geography category includes distance from Amazon's existing headquarters as one variable. Arguably, Amazon will want to diversify into a different labor market as much as possible; therefore we award points for metro areas farther away from Amazon's Seattle headquarters. In addition, we award points to regions based on our subjective assessment of the regional advantages. The Northeast scores the highest because of the access to the economically important Northeast Corridor and the political power center of Washington DC. Finally, this category awards points for the number of Amazon fulfillment centers in the state and distance to Jeff Bezos' closest non-Seattle homes. Taken together, geography helps bring Pennsylvania's two metro areas to the top of the list.

and more here:
https://www.economy.com/dismal/analysis/commentary/298321/Where-Amazons-Next-Headquarters-Should-Go/

[Wacca Pilatka]

Rochester?

I do understand it has an outstanding tech-oriented university.  But if airport access is a critical of a piece as we're assuming in dismissing Jacksonville's chances, it seems berserk to consider Rochester a serious candidate.