The District signs deal for a riverfront hotel on the Southbank

[Steve]

Every time I hear this deal, I get more confused. I feel confident Rummel has pockets deep enough for it, but it seems like this is really hard. I get why the Barnett and Laura Trio has taken forever. This on the other hand is vacant land.

Interesting that they extended this 90 day's so they can negotiate with the City, yet this seems to be the first public news that the City was going to take the land.

[MusicMan]

COJ has NEVER negotiated anything this complex in 90 days, so don't expect anything final within that time frame.

[jaxnyc79]

Honestly, it's hard to take the concept seriously.  Does anyone else feel like "Healthy Town, Life Well Lived," sound gimmicky and contrived?  I suppose no more than "celebration."  What's with commissioning a JU study to sell your project? 

I could be wrong, but this is the death knell for this project.  If you google "New Urbanism Townhomes," I believe you'll pull up some urban-style, low-rise housing product.  My view is that this is more along the lines of what a market like Jax can support in and around downtown.  Just infill all the empty urban core lots and blocks throughout jax with townhomes and low-rise apartments that are all very well connected with sidewalks and transit.  I just don't think there's much of a demand pipeline for high-rises (even 8 or 10 floors)...I could be wrong. 

[ProjectMaximus]

Just infill all the empty urban core lots and blocks throughout jax with townhomes and low-rise apartments that are all very well connected with sidewalks and transit.

Not at the prices the landowners want. Demand is not high enough for this either.

[Jim]

We have a merged city/county government.  Why does it seem like things take longer here than do developments that must go through city AND county agencies?

[jaxnyc79]

Just infill all the empty urban core lots and blocks throughout jax with townhomes and low-rise apartments that are all very well connected with sidewalks and transit.

Not at the prices the landowners want. Demand is not high enough for this either.

True

[Steve]

We have a merged city/county government.  Why does it seem like things take longer here than do developments that must go through city AND county agencies?

I'll light up the city when I feel it's due, but the city didn't mess up here. This was an agreement between the District People and JEA. The city only became directly involved recently (so recently that the City Council President was unaware).

I believe that Peter Rummel has the money, but I truly believe these guys have botched this up to this point. Not saying it can't be salvaged, but holy hell. Khan made the quote about bums in Detroit having more mojo than Jacksonville Millionaires. This project is his Exhibit A.

[thelakelander]

Lol I missed that quote. When did he say that? Btw, congrats on the twins.

[jaxnyc79]

Honestly, it's hard to take the concept seriously.  Does anyone else feel as though the quote: "Healthy Town, Life Well Lived," sounds gimmicky and contrived?  I suppose no more than "Celebration."  And what's with commissioning a JU study to sell your project? 

I could be wrong, but this recent delay may be the death knell for this project.  On to other ideas: if you google "New Urbanism Townhomes," I believe you'll pull up some examples of urban-style, low-rise housing product.  My view is that this is more along the lines of what a market like Jax can support in and around downtown.  Just infill all the empty urban core lots and blocks throughout jax with townhomes and low-rise apartments that are connected to sidewalks and transit.  I just don't think there's much of a demand pipeline for high-rises (even 8 or 10 floors)...I could be wrong.  Jax should pattern itself after Savannah and Charleston more so than New York City. 

[jaxnyc79]

Lol I missed that quote. When did he say that? Btw, congrats on the twins.

Was quoted as saying it in an April 22, 2014 article in the Times Union
He's probably on to something.  i mean, it was an exaggeration, but I'm not sure Jax has traditionally been a city where people endeavor to build wealth.  The wealthy class in Jax are probably retreating to Jax from somewhere else where they've built their wealth.  Jax misses out on the energy, dynamism, creativity, and industriousness of enterprise-building that makes a city shine.  Instead of the city giving away money to recruit "jobs," how about investing those resources in the entrepreneurial potential of truly local, homegrown talent.  How about a bunch of start-up incubators in live-work spaces downtown on some of that city-owned land?  It's very positive that UNF is locating an entrepreneurial center at the renovated Barnett (the city should be doing all it can to facilitate that move by UNF).

[vicupstate]

We have a merged city/county government.  Why does it seem like things take longer here than do developments that must go through city AND county agencies?

I'll light up the city when I feel it's due, but the city didn't mess up here. This was an agreement between the District People and JEA. The city only became directly involved recently (so recently that the City Council President was unaware).

I believe that Peter Rummel has the money, but I truly believe these guys have botched this up to this point. Not saying it can't be salvaged, but holy hell. Khan made the quote about bums in Detroit having more mojo than Jacksonville Millionaires. This project is his Exhibit A.

Reading the Daily Record article on this, it sounds like Rummell is expecting the city to incentivize this project, or it will likely not go forward.   

[heights unknown]

If that's the case then Peter Rummell is a POS.

[KenFSU]

^Really?

I honestly don't get the lack of faith. Someone mentioned that they understood the Trio + Barnett taking years, but not this project. To me, 29 acres of brownfield on the river seems every bit as complicated as four old buildings in disrepair. And just like the District, the Trio went through years of delays, tenet announcements, bureaucratic holdups, and public doubt. Now, I walk to work each morning and witness the Barnett being brought back to life.

Not sure why Element go through all the trouble of successfully bidding on the project, spending millions on the master plan and environmental certification, vetting hotel/grocery/theater tenets, going through the DDRB approval process, filing for approval for 125 marina slips, partner with JU, etc. if it wasn't in good faith. Clearly some investment from the public sector will be necessary to make the project viable, even if it's just infrastructure (roads, utilities, a riverwalk extension, etc.).

Personally, I think Rummell has earned more than the benefit of the doubt in terms of his commitment to Jacksonville. Hell, he helped convince the NFL to bring the Super Bowl to Jacksonville, Florida. Not even 2017 Jacksonville. 2005 Jacksonville. He launched One Spark. And he's got more high-profile development experience than anyone in Jax.

I've said it for the last two years, but I still think the District breaks ground 3-5 years before the Shipyards.

[thelakelander]

Both projects are complicated and won't turn out anything like the renderings that have been shown today. Jax's market can only support so much. My ultimate fear is that we'll be in a national recession before either breaks ground on their first phase. If that happens, they'll both disappear completely like previous mid 2000s plans for these sites.

[Tacachale]

^That's the much bigger fear. However, the JEA site won't be any worse than it is now if nothing comes together. The Trio is more of a problem as the buildings will have that much more time to decay.