Hemming Park Beautification

[Jim]

This is history, this is fact, it isn't going away because some one is offended or because it is grim to face.

If it is history and fact and isn't going away, then why do we need celebratory monuments to it?

[KenFSU]

Put up a sign that reads something similar to the below and call it a day.

"Confederate Statue - 1898.

The display of this statue is not an endorsement of the confederacy, nor is any social commentary intended by its presence in the park.

The statue is simply a long-standing historical artifact from Jacksonville's past."

I don't think everything has to be so binary - either present it as a memorial or rip it out of the ground altogether. If you qualify it's presence as being strictly historical and clearly note the context - historic preservation rather than celebration of bigotry - I think most reasonable people would simply view it as a civil war-era artifact, not a subversive racist altar. It may even encourage some important conversation.

Even better yet, erect that long-overdue James Weldon Johnson statue elsewhere in the park while you're at it. 

If we really want to solve racial problems in Jacksonville, we should start with law enforcement, the criminal justice system, public education, and a deficient public transportation system that separates much of the city's working poor from our major job centers. Once those things are fixed, we can start worrying about statues.

[Adam White]

So...can we talk about that mulch?

[lastdaysoffla]

This is history, this is fact, it isn't going away because some one is offended or because it is grim to face.

If it is history and fact and isn't going away, then why do we need celebratory monuments to it?

Well, I tried to establish earlier that a monument in and of itself is not inherently celebratory or an endorsement of the people or principals presented and the context and understanding of that monument changes with the times. In the 1890's the statue in Hemming Plaza Park would be seen as a monument to the Confederacy, today it is seen as a remnant of that, a reminder of how far we've come.

But, to answer your question, because these monuments are part of the historical and physical landscape and an erasure of that is an erasure of history.

Confederate Park for example is so-named not because of the Confederacy having a stronghold in Jacksonville, I think the Union held it for most of the war, but because of the reunion of the United Confederate Veterans that was held there in 1914. Those veterans who are legally considered veterans of the United States, should have their sacrifices honored, I think. So does the Federal Government who recognizes Union and CSA soldiers as having equal status.



It contains a monument to the Women of the confederacy. Should that be torn down as symbol of hatred?





http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-apr-urban-parks-confederate-park

[lastdaysoffla]

Put up a sign that reads something similar to the below and call it a day.

"Confederate Statue - 1898.

The display of this statue is not an endorsement of the confederacy, nor is any social commentary intended by its presence in the park.

The statue is simply a long-standing historical artifact from Jacksonville's past."

I don't think everything has to be so binary - either present it as a memorial or rip it out of the ground altogether. If you qualify it's presence as being strictly historical and clearly note the context - historic preservation rather than celebration of bigotry - I think most reasonable people would simply view it as a civil war-era artifact, not a subversive racist altar. It may even encourage some important conversation.

Even better yet, erect that long-overdue James Weldon Johnson statue elsewhere in the park while you're at it. 

If we really want to solve racial problems in Jacksonville, we should start with law enforcement, the criminal justice system, public education, and a deficient public transportation system that separates much of the city's working poor from our major job centers. Once those things are fixed, we can start worrying about statues.

Agreed. How about a statue to Anna Kingsley who was arguably the first woman of African descent to own land in what is now Jacksonville.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Maybe you guys should start a separate thread about this?? And let this thread get back to the Beautification of Hemming Park

[jlmann]

I should be remembered alongside bigots and slaveholders for my belief that history should remain intact and in public view the confederacy deserves to continue to be memorialized?

ftfy. yes.

Should be demolish the slave cabin's at Kingsley Plantation? Should we knock down the White House because it was built by slaves and occupied by slave holders?

really revealing your intellectual chops here.  The slave cabin at Kingsley was constructed when slavery was common practice.  It was not erected by the plantation's owner decades after the civil war to memorialize anything or anyone.  AND ITS OUT IN BFE.
The White House is akin to a confederate monument for purposes of this discussion?  That's absurd.  By your "logic" I should advocate for destruction of virtually all antebellum structures built south of the mason dixon line.  also absurd

In the sense of Free Speech, Freedom of Expression and under the Rule of Law, actually we do.

Yeah if you wanna go down there a spout off about our history as it is in your mind, fine.  legal.  a monument to intolerance is quite a different thing.

Even better yet, erect that long-overdue James Weldon Johnson statue elsewhere in the park while you're at it. 

Agreed. How about a statue to Anna Kingsley who was arguably the first woman of African descent to own land in what is now Jacksonville.

equating confederate soldiers with people who actually have done good for the world?  "oh well theyre all historic figures der her" chimed the dimwits

"Confederate Statue - 1898.
The display of this statue is not an endorsement of the confederacy, nor is any social commentary intended by its presence in the park.

add "we condemn the confederacy and strive to not repeat its mistakes" and you may have something.  your statement amounts to "we can neither confirm nor deny whether the confederacy is in any way objectionable and wish not to offend any descendants of confederate soldiers"

[jlmann]

oh come on keith totally unrelated arguments are what mj is all about baby!

[jlmann]

back to hemming.  and this is the last thing i'll say re: the daily denizens.

they simply are not a bunch of good honest hard working citizens who are down on their luck and just taking a breather while they try to find work.  I cant make this up:

i'm walking to my car after work and one of the regulars drifted down a block to laura and adams.  50-60 y/o white guy, bic bald head, tan, not usually wearing a shirt or just some weird remnant of a shirt.  any frequenters of hemming would instantly recognize him.

anyway, you cant make this up:  I see him badgering somebody across the street and keep walking thinking glad hes on that side, but he runs across the street with the classic "hey can I ask you a question."

I know whats coming- heard this guys spiel a dozen of times.  But no, I don't know whats coming.  "hey, hey, hey- you want a hand job? blow job? do you for $80? $40? $5?"

anything to get this type of scum out of the core is a wise decision by me

[Adam White]

back to hemming.  and this is the last thing i'll say re: the daily denizens.

they simply are not a bunch of good honest hard working citizens who are down on their luck and just taking a breather while they try to find work.  I cant make this up:

i'm walking to my car after work and one of the regulars drifted down a block to laura and adams.  50-60 y/o white guy, bic bald head, tan, not usually wearing a shirt or just some weird remnant of a shirt.  any frequenters of hemming would instantly recognize him.

anyway, you cant make this up:  I see him badgering somebody across the street and keep walking thinking glad hes on that side, but he runs across the street with the classic "hey can I ask you a question."

I know whats coming- heard this guys spiel a dozen of times.  But no, I don't know whats coming.  "hey, hey, hey- you want a hand job? blow job? do you for $80? $40? $5?"

anything to get this type of scum out of the core is a wise decision by me

Sounds pretty hardworking to me.

[jlmann]

seriously wish I was.  it was actually pretty distressing to have this guy running after me.  thought of calling the police, but realized I didn't really want to get involved in any of that nonsense and the guy would just be right back dt in a few months while sucking on my tax dollars in prison during the interim

I raised my hand up while he was behind to attempt to say back the f off, but after I realized on the way home he misinterpreted that as a counter offer- thus the drop to $5

[jlmann]

also piss off for suggesting i'd make up some story up for purposes of a padding my arguments on a effing mj forum

my opinions are formed from 10+yr being downtown.

go over to vagabond and ask will to give you a top 5 from his year+ down there in the trailer.  this incident would fit right in.  he's way more qualified than most and certainly anyone here to give an opinion on current state of hemming

he agrees with me.  btw

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

back to hemming.  and this is the last thing i'll say re: the daily denizens.

they simply are not a bunch of good honest hard working citizens who are down on their luck and just taking a breather while they try to find work.  I cant make this up:

i'm walking to my car after work and one of the regulars drifted down a block to laura and adams.  50-60 y/o white guy, bic bald head, tan, not usually wearing a shirt or just some weird remnant of a shirt.  any frequenters of hemming would instantly recognize him.

anyway, you cant make this up:  I see him badgering somebody across the street and keep walking thinking glad hes on that side, but he runs across the street with the classic "hey can I ask you a question."

I know whats coming- heard this guys spiel a dozen of times.  But no, I don't know whats coming.  "hey, hey, hey- you want a hand job? blow job? do you for $80? $40? $5?"

anything to get this type of scum out of the core is a wise decision by me

Two questions: 

1.)  Did his hands look soft, like maybe he moisturized?

2.)  Did he have narrow, tight lips or were they kind of full and pouty?

*asking for a friend...

[thelakelander]

Lol at the story. However, COJ could outright close Hemming and it won't change the chance of that happening to someone on a downtown street.

[jlmann]

lol idk but you could find him at hemming or a few blocks away to check him out for such purposes.  no agreement was reached, but i'd say bring a 20 and your safe