Results of the Boom: Dead Projects

[Lunican]

while most of those projects look great, lets keep in mind that it would have been a disaster if they all, or even a few too many, went vertical at the same time.  Traffic issues would have no time to be resolved, our city would absolutely not have given any ground to aspiring developers, and once all the projects were completed the core would be understaffed, overcrowded, and would have left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.  What I take out of this article is that while the projects are dead or delayed, it as we all know was more a function of the collapse of the market nationally; not the potential of the core of our city.  The developers are still out there and I believe we will get some of these projects in a more manageable order.  Keep your heads up!  We want the core to grow steadily, not an un-sustainable boom of artificial demand.

This pretty much describes the situation that was created by suburban growth over the past 10 years.

[downtownjag]

agreed, although evidently I need to learn how to quote a quote, see above

[ProjectMaximus]

Yeah, I'm with dtjag on this one. Maybe it's because I always look for the bright side of things, but I think that had many of these projects pushed forth just before the real estate bubble burst, we'd have lots of empty high-rises downtown now. The silver lining we should all remember is that we want smart and sustained growth that will put us in a good position in the long run.

When the housing market returns, hopefully we can resume that slow but steady development in the core.

[downtownjag]

I would also be pretty suprised if there were more than 5 or 6 cranes in downtown Miami right now

[thelakelander]

I would also be pretty suprised if there were more than 5 or 6 cranes in downtown Miami right now

There's more than that.  I know there's a few projects rising in Brickell right now and I see at least six in this one shot looking north.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=477774&page=90

[downtownjag]

I am suprised lakelander.  Look at that picture and count how many developers wish they weren't paying rent on non-profitable cranes right now.  They are all collecting dust.  I don't care if those are residential, office, or mixed-used projects.  Now is an awful time to build.  Construction costs are way up, in every sector, besides labor.  I don't know if you are arguing the amount of cranes in Miami or the feasability of building in Jacksonville but in my opinion you are way off.     

[thelakelander]

I'm not off, there are six cranes in the image.  That's the only point I was trying to make.  As for now being an awful time to build, I believe it ultimately depends on the type of project you're developing and the market you're targeting.  Even in today's economic conditions, you can't paint every single project with one broad brush.

[downtownjag]

Agreed, and I apologize for coming off strongly.  I have read many of your posts and I respect your opinion.  Long term, I agree that most of those cranes will turn into profitable investments.  Go Jaguars

[thelakelander]

No need to apologize.  Some of the cranes in Miami may be office developments.  Its an international business center, so some of the companies down there may not be suffering.

As for Jax, I think we have to remember that not all proposals come to light.  Despite the dead and delayed list, we saw a number of new projects rise in the urban core over the first half of this decade.  There are many similar sized cities across the US that can't say the same.

[Ocklawaha]

I would also be pretty suprised if there were more than 5 or 6 cranes in downtown Miami right now

Sorry guys, Miami might even close the population gap (in spite of our consolidation) if you check the world high rise forums they have over 70 new projects. As far as I know, all 70 are up from the dust, how many will be done is anyones guess. Bottom line, they will leave us in their dust, or we'll get the few financial survivors when the rest of their developers jump out of 90 story windows and splatter on Flagler.

We just didn't get into the boom until it was over, as usual, typical Jacksonville foot dragging. But in the end this might have been a good thing for local financial institutions.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Its unfair to compare Jax with Miami.  Metro Miami is five times larger than Metro Jax and was the site of the largest urban boom in America over the last couple of years.  Also, there have been several projects in Miami that have been canceled as well.  However, that place is just on a different level.

[Ocklawaha]

I don't agree Lake, in 1900, we were far ahead of Miami, 1940-60 we were neck and neck, comes the AFL and the POST FLAGLER ERA and Miami metro Skyrockets past us. Dallas got it's NFL team with a population of about 600,000 - 800,000 then rocketed past us. Ditto Tampa. It's our turn now, good team or bad, we can't pay for the commercials we got last night. This sort of thing makes every television game a WIN for Jacksonville. With our space and our river, we could overtake Miami before, my wires are depowered, I'm labeled "NOT IN SERVICE" and go to the big carbarn in the Sky.

"I'm a believer!"

OCKLAWAHA

[reednavy]

I can go ahead and say about the Miami image. The 4 cranes in the lower right of the picture are part of Metropolitan Miami development. They are working on phase 2 (MET2), which is a 47-story office tower, and an ajoining 42-story Marriott Marquis hotel.

[thelakelander]

I don't agree Lake, in 1900, we were far ahead of Miami, 1940-60 we were neck and neck, comes the AFL and the POST FLAGLER ERA and Miami metro Skyrockets past us. Dallas got it's NFL team with a population of about 600,000 - 800,000 then rocketed past us. Ditto Tampa. It's our turn now, good team or bad, we can't pay for the commercials we got last night. This sort of thing makes every television game a WIN for Jacksonville. With our space and our river, we could overtake Miami before, my wires are depowered, I'm labeled "NOT IN SERVICE" and go to the big carbarn in the Sky.

"I'm a believer!"

OCKLAWAHA

When we forget about imaginary municipal city limit lines and look at metro area population, you'll see those places were already signficantly larger than us as far back as 1950.  Metro Miami was almost twice the size as Metro Jax (579,017 vs. 304,029) and Metro Tampa was larger as well (409,113 vs. 304,029).  In 1950, Dallas was much larger (1,136,144 vs. 304,029).

link to numbers: http://www.demographia.com/dm-usmet-fr50.htm

Our day as the true un-contested big dog in Florida peaked somewhere between 1880 and 1900.  Excluding Orlando, during the last 100 years, we were never significantly larger than these other places.  We can probably blame Flagler and Plant for extending the railroad across the St. Johns to South and Central Florida.  I believe in the future of Jacksonville, but I also accept the notion that urban centers like Miami, San Francisco, Dallas, NYC, Chicago, etc. are on a completely different level due to shear size.  

[thelakelander]

I can go ahead and say about the Miami image. The 4 cranes in the lower right of the picture are part of Metropolitan Miami development. They are working on phase 2 (MET2), which is a 47-story office tower, and an ajoining 42-story Marriott Marquis hotel.

Thanks for the update.  Considering the lack of commercial projects during Miami's condo boom period, there may be some untapped demand for office and hotel space serving that urban core's higher population base.