Municipal Bond Failures. This Would be a Real Crisis.

[stephendare]

sadly this thread was hijacked for the next few pages.  The original post is below.

[apvbguy]

Its too lengthy to explain right now, but these bond issues are the real tiger in the tank.

Apparently the rise in income derived from property taxes tied to bond issues that accompanied the housing boom were treated as equity to borrow against across the nation.

Now that the bubble has burst the property tax revenues are naturally plummeting.  And by plumetting, I mean that that they are falling like a flaming anvil dropped out of a dirigible in the sky....

If this spreads, its going to be an ouchie.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aB3.wYBu3lDs&refer=news

if you read the article you'll see that this county acted very poorly in their management of debt, the entered into the realm of speculation and did not act on behalf of the public trust, while the situation this county is in is rare it is not unique, that said the majority of publicly issued bonds are not at risk and to try and spread malicious rumors like you are is dangerous and serves little purpose other than to spread fear and mistrust. Nowhere in this article is anything suggested like you are suggesting. You must cease and desist from this kind posting.

[apvbguy]

APVBGuy.  Kindly back up one assertion in your screed and stop attacking the posters on this board.

oh great oracle of jax, please forgive me.
I didn't attack any poster I attacked the spreading of inaccurate, made up facts that could be very harmful.
I would hope that an oracle as great as you are would not have to resort to such tactics to force wildly misinformed opinions onto others

[stug]

If it's so tedious, stop responding. Just a suggestion.

[apvbguy]

If it's so tedious, stop responding. Just a suggestion.

thanks for your most excellent suggestion and in fact many times I do ignore the boorish messages but sometimes the posts just have to be responded to, the comments made are so outlandish that they cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. It is unfortunate that some posters have a such a low tolerance for dissension. Again thanks for you input and I will try in the future to let the less egregious posts pass without comment

[apvbguy]

Its too lengthy to explain right now, but these bond issues are the real tiger in the tank.

Apparently the rise in income derived from property taxes tied to bond issues that accompanied the housing boom were treated as equity to borrow against across the nation.

Now that the bubble has burst the property tax revenues are naturally plummeting.  And by plumetting, I mean that that they are falling like a flaming anvil dropped out of a dirigible in the sky....

once again you are adding 2+2 and coming up with 7, property taxes and bond issues are 2 disconnected issues, they become connected if and only if the bond repayments are to be made directly from property tax income but that is not usually the case. most bond issues like the one you cited have the repayments tied to revenues generated from whatever the bond is issued for, like in this case sewer fees. municipal bonds usually fund capital projects and property taxes usually fund daily operations and only the most foolish of governments ever bond to cover daily normal operating expenses.
that said there could very well be an issue for bond repayments as growth is hindered and the projects bonded for do not generate the expected revenues.
in the case of property taxes problems can be looming because revenues may not meet projections because of defaults. but these are 2 disconnected issues and your sky is falling proclamation is way to early and alarmist

[apvbguy]

Interestingly, (and you might want to spend a moment educating yourself before you respond APVBGuy) there is actually a Wikipedia Article on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_bond

I don't know what wiki says, but I do know what I said about bonding and municipal funding and expeditures is dead on. How many municipal budgets have you ever done? any?

[RiversideGator]

Interestingly, (and you might want to spend a moment educating yourself before you respond APVBGuy) there is actually a Wikipedia Article on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_bond

Which doesnt contain anything that supports your argument that:

Apparently the rise in income derived from property taxes tied to bond issues that accompanied the housing boom were treated as equity to borrow against across the nation.

[RiversideGator]

Perhaps I overlooked it when I skimmed the article.  Why dont you post the excerpt for us if you are telling the truth?

[RiversideGator]

Interestingly, (and you might want to spend a moment educating yourself before you respond APVBGuy) there is actually a Wikipedia Article on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_bond

I don't know what wiki says, but I do know what I said about bonding and municipal funding and expeditures is dead on. How many municipal budgets have you ever done? any?

Lol.  Have you?

Which one?  when?  What capacity did you serve in?

No one is more accomplished or knowledgeable on any subject than the oracle of Springfield.   

[apvbguy]

Which one?  when?  What capacity did you serve in?

sorry, I will not give you specifics but I can say that I have done municipal, school, and county departmental ones.
Now what have you ever done in the municipal budgeting or bonding areas?
trust me, you're way out of your field here

[apvbguy]

Im sorry.  I flat out do not believe you.

what you believe is irrelevant, the fact is that once again you've been caught pontificating on a subject you know way too little about. Thanks for playing, I'll be looking to expose your limited expertise on some other subject

[RiversideGator]

 

[apvbguy]

btw. almost all the mainstream economists are already predicting a wave of municipal bond defaults, separately from the problem described above.

that article could be right on target or if could be completely wrong but it doesn't support the claims you've made which were overly alarmist and used disconnected facts to come to a conclusion. After having your methodology exposed you offer things like this in an attempt to back fill and justify your original misinformation

[RiversideGator]

Bonds have defaulted, bonds will default, bonds will always default.  They will default more in times of economic distress.  This does not mean the world will end.  What exactly is your point (other than to fan the flames of hysteria and drama), Stephen?