IF THE CITY GAVE YOU THE SKYWAY?

[brainstormer]

I think it is a great plan Ock!  A massive station at that corner would be well utilized and do much for connectivity.  Would it work to take the skyway around the east side of the baseball park along N Georgia street instead of A Philip Randolph and then horseshoe it into a "fairgrounds" station?  I only say this because a skyway stop at the corner of Georgia and Bay would better serve the Stadium, Metro Park and Kids Kampus.  A station there is another block east than one at Randolph and Bay.  If the picture in my mind is correct, there is more space at this corner for building a station as well.  Just a thought 

[JeffreyS]

It needs to be closer to metro park.

[thelakelander]

I agree with the last few posts.  If its going to go into that area, it's better to get it closer to Metro Park, JMS and Kids Kampus instead of running it over APR Blvd.  Running it directly east of the baseball park puts you within a block of the front entrances of the arena and ballpark.  It also would not become a visual negative for JHS's property.

[Ocklawaha]

Funny thing is, I generally agree too. Trouble is, current freeway ramps leading in and out pretty much lock us out of points east for commuter uses. The idea of a loop is something else I have kicked around, in my mind, it would run Bay to the West side of Metropolitan Stadium, with a station at the stadium, also a slight return to APR corner.

The Randolph - Georgia - Franklin? Corners are important as a Streetcar could loop Beaver and Duval. So lets work out the puzzle? More feedback, anyone else got crayons? Lakelander?

OCKLAWAHA

[brainstormer]

So can the Skyway go down bay street or will it have to turn off bay and go up say market and then over the bridge on Duval?  If we did that, then you could do a loop that included the arena, stadium, metro park, and the baseball park and then come back over the bridge on duval.  That actually might work and would prevent a dead end.  Am I clear in my idea or did I just confuse you?

[Ocklawaha]

Hows this look? The hidden bene of this plan is not only a station at the parks and stadium, but a 5 way auto access point. Elevated Skyway and ELEVATED STREETCAR coming over Haines Street alongside the highway grade elevations on the Arlington Expressway loop - then crossing Haines. Entering the station from the west on Second Floor Level, the Skyway on 3Rd Floor, and buses on the Ground, everything else is parking and some small retail and food services + security.

Commuters using the two bridges or coming down the MLK could swing into the garage and ride into town. Sporting venues of any type are covered.

Moreover, the new Matthews bridge may have LRT built in, if so, this second floor Streetcar line, would set the stage for an Eastbound Exit that could go over to Arlington in the Future. Also with the Skyway on level 3, it is NOT boxed in either, and might someday feed a major hotel or high rise north of the freeway or into Talleyrand district itself.

AGAIN, LET ME HEAR YOU?!?!?!

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Brainstormer, I think the loop idea would work well also. The traffic flow could be reversed on the loop part depending on where the various stadium/park/arena stations were and if traffic was INBOUND or OUTBOUND. It might make empting the stadiums easier - if each station had two boarding tracks + a center platform, but they could go back to single track - SIGNALED - at the end of the platforms.


Modern Streetcar or LRV


Large size Monorail Train

We need the signals as we now have them installed, because as the system comes to life and expands there is no telling when the trains may grow to a manned train size - or in the event of a need for sudden manual operation from cab cars in the event of computer failures. Currently such failures kill the system, but it doesn't matter much as ridership is so low. IF this thing was as we envision it, we would HAVE TO BACK IT UP with motormen, perhaps cross trained Streetcar Operators.

OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

Ock I love the new diagram.

[JeffreyS]

Lets make that multi-modal station a tall building with offices. condos and a SkyWay cafe.

[ProjectMaximus]

Ohhhh, man. Skyway Cafe. That is awesome. When I can, I'll open it someday. But hopefully I'll be too late.

Lets make that multi-modal station a tall building with offices. condos and a SkyWay cafe.

[Ocklawaha]

The one benefit (besides a one of a kind TV-Camera shot on nationwide) is that the Skyway stadium station could be closed except for games and such. Otherwise the cars would roll right through. Their could also be an "on call" button for people with business in the stadium between games, such a station would need to have tight security within, and a security office/guard off hours.

The big terminal at the end of both streetcar and Skyway would operate 365/20/7.

OCKLAWAHA

[Coolyfett]

I agree with the last few posts.  If its going to go into that area, it's better to get it closer to Metro Park, JMS and Kids Kampus instead of running it over APR Blvd.  Running it directly east of the baseball park puts you within a block of the front entrances of the arena and ballpark.  It also would not become a visual negative for JHS's property.

Yea I was kinda thinking along those lines. As some stated the Georgia Gatorbowl corner would be a great location for the Sports Complex station. Sometimes JHS looks like it is apart of the ballpark. It would be cool if they actually connected the two together or build that Negro League museum Ock talks about as the connection building...all you need a few red bricks lol.

Lake you are saying put the Station between the ballpark and the stadium in the parking lot right?

[brainstormer]

Personally, I think a large station on the fairgrounds land would better serve the sports complex as a whole.  It seems more centralized and with the parking ramp there already and quick access to Arlington Expressway, seems like a better option.  I think the skyway would attract more riders if it had a stop right by the arena and baseball park.  Figure out a way to put a station stop close to Metro Park, but I don't think we need the skyway to go to the east side of the football stadium.  Maybe the streetcar line can better serve the east side.  I liked your first diagram with perhaps a change to Georgia street instead of Randolph.

[Coolyfett]

4 Stations for the Sports Complex Ock?? LOL thats a lot man. The lot between the stadium & ballpark is perfect!!!! I think that is where the old coliseum used to be?? I could see the "Skyway Cafe" Restaurant there!!! A long with a Jacksonville Sports Museum.....Man that would be bad ass OCK what you think? 1 station at that location with a restaurant & museum apart of it!!! 

[Ocklawaha]

Here's the key. Neither of my plans counts on sports or concerts to keep it running. My planning will always include the commuter. The quicker we can get them to the edge of the metro, be it downtown, or Gate Parkway, and load them in mass transit, the better.

If at the same time, we can get them to use the bus, BRT, streetcar, Commuter Rail, or Skyway in some combination, then we are better off and will remove cars from the streets. A dollar spent on the SKYWAY to enlarge it to be included in a transit-NETWORK, is a dollar we won't be spending on lanes.

The TIMES-UNION is clueless and ran with another hack piece on this sick little 1/2 system. Like trying to sail on 1/2 of the QEII, you might save money by building half a ship, but it's only going in one direction... DOWN!
They seem to think the status quo will eventully work as long as we just wait it out. YEAH RIGHT, My thinking says they might be right - perhaps the next ice age. Until then we better fix it or remove it, and a fix is worlds better, since very little enlargment is needed for it to make sense.

SKYWAY RIDERSHIP
Fewer people have been using the Skyway:
There were about 70,000 passengers in January 2007.
By the time fares increased from 35 cents to 50 cents that October, ridership was down to 45,000.
Since January, it has averaged just 40,000.
Source: The Florida Times-Union
Last modified 8/5/2008 - 3:11 pm
Originally created 080608

Skyway: Proceed carefully


By The Times-Union


Did you hear that a local Rotary Club started meeting in the Skyway?
   
The club needed to go somewhere with a lot of empty seats. Ba boom.

That's one of many jokes about the elevated rail cars that run downtown, carrying only a fraction of the passengers first envisioned.

And, with ridership dropping, the jokes aren't likely to subside.

Not that the Jacksonville Transportation Authority is laughing. To the contrary, the JTA insists the Skyway still has potential.

First, JTA spokesman Mike Miller points out, some unforeseen circumstances hurt ridership - a bank pulled its offices out of downtown and more parking garages were built.

Then, fares went from 35 cents to 50 cents, and that hurt ridership.

But was that such a bad thing? Fares generated more revenue.

Despite less ridership, higher fares cut the losses - which even now run about $4 million a year.

What's harder to justify is the JTA's interest in expanding the route. There was talk of extending it to the football stadium.

That sounds nice, but the cost is difficult to justify for a handful of events each year.

Now, the JTA is taking a look at a Skyway extension down Riverside Avenue.

Why? A lot of housing and condos are being planned in the Brooklyn area.

Steven Arrington, JTA director of resource development, stresses that nothing is imminent, however, adding that "because of the real estate slump, it may be a while" before any decisions would be made.

Good. Go slow.

A bus "trolley" already serves that route - and the JTA is considering a real trolley system (streetcars on rails, powered by overhead electricity) that take Brooklyn residents downtown.

Miller insists the last Skyway extension - across the river - may yet work out.

Apartments and condos are being planned on the Northbank, he says.

"When they are done, you'll see a dramatic increase in Skyway ridership."

Let's hope so. Like it or not, we have the Skyway.

It's good that the JTA keeps looking for a way to make it work, painstakingly examining one option after another almost like working a jigsaw puzzle.

But there isn't a lot in the Skyway's history to inspire confidence.

Be very careful before spending a lot of money to extend the line.

Two wrongs don't make a right. They make two wrongs.

Well JTA and City Hall can rejoyce, looks like I've done gone and PISSED OFF THE TIMES-UNION too now. The author of the above story called and interviewed me twice, and got a copy of all my articles + a map showing how we could extend it. I spotted the HACK JOB right away and he got NOTHING for ammo from me. I called Mike Miller and gave him a heads up too. This kind of crap reporting needs to stop. We need to get behind JTA when they have something right, and expansion, be it ever so small, IS RIGHT! To make a long story short, I got cut out of the article - (gee what a pisser! LOL!)

Two wrongs? Like what? Look at history for the answer. 1/2 of a Florida East Coast Railroad, Miami today is a tiny village, and Melbourne is a city of 5 million! HUH? Yeah. Put another way, had Robert E. Lee not played like a TIMES UNION WRITER and sent in Longstreet's corps to back Picketts charge at Gettysburg, we'd all be singing the "Bonnie Blue Flag" before our football games... (damn the luck), but a 1/2 a charge doesn't a victory make. If you only filled 1/2 the life boats on the Titanic, history would call you irresponsible, even STUPID because ... oh wait, that's what they did! And so we have a 1/2 of a transit system. True, I, aka: OCKLAWAHA, would have never built it, as I think rail - STREETCAR fit us better and would have taken us farther. Today we might be extending to Orange Park at Blanding, or Jacksonville Beach, rather then a crippled Skyway with ZERO support from our leadership. But  we didn't build the streetcars, we have the Skyway, and I'll be damned if I plan to let this city ignore it forever! Care to join me?