IF THE CITY GAVE YOU THE SKYWAY?

[Doctor_K]

Thanks for the verification Ock!  Some other random, uneducated, stream-of-conscious thoughts:

1.  It seems that that particular 'spur pylon,' with a track extended from it, would hit a building one block east down Bay Street (apologies - don't have access to maps or the name/address of that particular building!).  Does a building with almost no setback from the street such as that present a huge, un-work-around-able obstacle towards running the Skyway down Bay Street?

2.  Once past that, would we turn this theoretical SKyway extension up A. Phillip Randolph from East Bay, thus providing more-direct access to Maxwell House/Baseball Grounds/Arena?  Or would it kind of dead-end at some point along Gator Bowl Blvd?  Met Park/KidZone would make a phenomenal (theoretical) location for a station, should it go that way instead of up Randolph.  Perfect access to Stadium and Met Park, but not so much for Baseball Grounds/Arena.

3.  Would the Skyway look 'out of place' heading further down Park Street?  For example, are there any tracts of appreciable 'historical fabric' buildings amongst which a SkyWay would look incongruous?

[thelakelander]

Thanks for the verification Ock!  Some other random, uneducated, stream-of-conscious thoughts:

1.  It seems that that particular 'spur pylon,' with a track extended from it, would hit a building one block east down Bay Street (apologies - don't have access to maps or the name/address of that particular building!).  Does a building with almost no setback from the street such as that present a huge, un-work-around-able obstacle towards running the Skyway down Bay Street?

Existing buildings won't be a problem if the new line were built over the street, similar to the Hogan Street segment.  I wasn't around when the first skyway segment was built, but were buildings lining Bay demolished for it?  If so, that's a shame. 

2.  Once past that, would we turn this theoretical SKyway extension up A. Phillip Randolph from East Bay, thus providing more-direct access to Maxwell House/Baseball Grounds/Arena?  Or would it kind of dead-end at some point along Gator Bowl Blvd?  Met Park/KidZone would make a phenomenal (theoretical) location for a station, should it go that way instead of up Randolph.  Perfect access to Stadium and Met Park, but not so much for Baseball Grounds/Arena.

Ock probably feels different, but if I had it my way, I'd run it down to Metro Park.  The arena and baseball park could be easily served by a station on the corner of Bay & Philip Randolph.  That's a short distance away and a lot closer to the front entrances of those facilities than most of the surface parking lots serving them.

3.  Would the Skyway look 'out of place' heading further down Park Street?  For example, are there any tracts of appreciable 'historical fabric' buildings amongst which a SkyWay would look incongruous?

I don't think I'd run it down Park Street (I assume you're talking about the heart of Five Points?).  You'll face heavy opposition from the Riverside/Avondale community.

[Traveller]

I would like to see stations directly integrated with buildings, to the point where someone exiting a skyway train would not necessarily have to descend to ground level in order to exit the station and access the building.  Rather, they would use a different station exit leading directly to the second or third floor of the integrated building.  They could likewise enter the station the same way.  The DC Metro has several stations connecting directly to office or apartment buildings.  I knew a woman who rode the Metro from her apartment in Crystal City to an office in L'Enfant Plaza and never once went outside.

Such a design could be implemented in the new Brooklyn development, a possible convention center at Bay & Market, or even the new development at the Jefferson station, although the latter would require modification of the existing station.  To take this concept one step further, once a new convention center is operational and the Prime Osbourne is converted back to a transit hub, I would like to see its Skyway station moved to the south side of Bay and directly integrated with the station.  One could exit an Amtrak or commuter train, walk across the lobby and up an escalator, and board a Skyway train bound for downtown.  I realize, however, that this is an expensive proposition for moving a station a mere 200 feet.

[Ocklawaha]

Thanks for the verification Ock!  Some other random, uneducated, stream-of-conscious thoughts:

1.  It seems that that particular 'spur pylon,' with a track extended from it, would hit a building one block east down Bay Street (apologies - don't have access to maps or the name/address of that particular building!).  Does a building with almost no setback from the street such as that present a huge, un-work-around-able obstacle towards running the Skyway down Bay Street?

Shouldn't be a problem, as the Skyway can twist and turn it's way around obstscles just like it makes the turns onto Hogan or the Acosta. A slight reverse "S" curve would realign it to any needed degree on Bay.

2.  Once past that, would we turn this theoretical SKyway extension up A. Phillip Randolph from East Bay, thus providing more-direct access to Maxwell House?  Or would it kind of dead-end at some point along Gator Bowl Blvd?  Met Park/KidZone would make a phenomenal (theoretical) location for a station, should it go that way instead of up Randolph.  Perfect access to Stadium and Met Park, but not so much for Baseball Grounds/Arena.

This is a real conundrum. I'd like to see models of both run with the top notch systems at FDOT. I too have mixed feelings on this. Certainly the Stadium and parks are the larger attraction BUT... The Fairgrounds utilities building on the West Side of Randolph next to the Garage, would make for a fantastic SKYWAY-STREETCAR-BUS-PARK and RIDE location right off the Arlington Expressway.  Perhaps a station at Bay and Randolph and another at the expressway Terminal would serve all venues?

3.  Would the Skyway look 'out of place' heading further down Park Street?  For example, are there any tracts of appreciable 'historical fabric' buildings amongst which a SkyWay would look incongruous?

Not at all, I know that Riverside has Right-of-way already included in it for the Skyway as far as I-95, which would leave Park or Myrtle open to streetcars. But hey, this is YOUR SKYWAY, you tell me!

OCKLAWAHA

[Doctor_K]

3.  Would the Skyway look 'out of place' heading further down Park Street?  For example, are there any tracts of appreciable 'historical fabric' buildings amongst which a SkyWay would look incongruous?

I don't think I'd run it down Park Street (I assume you're talking about the heart of Five Points?).  You'll face heavy opposition from the Riverside/Avondale community.

Humblest apologies.  My geography is apparently not what it used to be.  I wasn't thinking about 5 Points per se.  Where the current maintenance shed is... Google Earth says its May Street. 

Parallel it to Riverside or else run it down Riverside itself.  That's where I meant originally:  down Riverside/May to say, I-95, to serve the YMCA/St. Joe/Everbank Plaza/Fidelity/BC-BS?  Once past I-95 in that direction it gets more heavily 'historical'-like, and *there*, IMO, it wouldn't be as congruous a fit. 

Not at all, I know that Riverside has Right-of-way already included in it for the Skyway as far as I-95, which would leave Park or Myrtle open to streetcars. But hey, this is YOUR SKYWAY, you tell me!

Fascinating.  Was not aware of that.  Good to know.  I'm all over that then.

[Doctor_K]

That "mystery building" that I'm thinking of is actually on the NE corner of Bay and Laura, right behind the SunTrust building and across from the BoA Tower. 

But you said a reverse "S" curve could wind around that?  How would that affect street and sidewalk traffic?


Other thoughts:
4.  Drop a station at Liberty & Bay, on the NE corner of the Courthouse block to service Churchwell/Bay Street Entertainment Strip/Courthouse/Berkman 1 & 2/Jail (not the best way to promote or advertise, granted...).  Since the new Courthouse is going up elsewhere, the old Courthouse site could be subject to adaptive reuse and would benefit from an existing station.

5.  Another station in the midst of Maxwell House/Shipyards area.  Would help Maxwell House Museum/Cafe idea that I know I've seen discussed elsewhere around here.  This station would serve as its own split for an A. Phillip Randolph spur AND a Metro Park spur, should both be warranted.

6.  Get the TV station out of that corner adjacent to the Baseball grounds and reconstruct/reconfigure as another parking garage/Skyway Station combo, a la King Street Station.  All three venues right there would benefit from another garage structure anyway. 

[JeffreyS]

I Think you need to get it to the Publix in Five Points. Go under( sorry OCK.) 95 beside Annie Lytle though to the park down Margret to the backside of Al's pizza.  You could make the lot behind Al's to the new five guys a pretty discrete parking Garage.  You could not be at grade so it is full price.

[Ocklawaha]

That "mystery building" that I'm thinking of is actually on the NE corner of Bay and Laura, right behind the SunTrust building and across from the BoA Tower. 

But you said a reverse "S" curve could wind around that?  How would that affect street and sidewalk traffic?

Here's a couple of images, looks like clear sailing even if it went straight ahead. Note the green property lines.





OCKLAWAHA

[Jason]

Yup, it would work.  Besides, the Bay Street and Hogan legs both take up 1/2 of a lane of traffic already.  The other half lane is used for parallel parking, and its shaded!

[Ocklawaha]

Wasn't it some claptrap about not wanting to "make ourselves look like cheap capitalists taking advantage..." I just remember it being class act STUPID.

The fact that the ENTIRE WORLD COULD HAVE SEEN a huge stadium with 8 car monorail trains running in and out of a 2nd deck level station on television, and we BLEW IT! What would that have done for the "I don't know where Jacksonville is coach..., image?" Imagine the chatter in Spanish, French, German, Russian, Chinese, Japanese and maybe 80 other languages around the globe as the cameras keep panning back to the scene of    J - A - C - K - S - O - N - V - I - L - L - E and it''s futuristic transit system...

Reminds me of an incident behind the scenes of the filming of the Addams Family movie. The director told little Wednesday, "Put some personality into it, give us a smile at ....." The little actress walked away then spun around and stared down the director and said matter-of-factly, "LOOK, I'm Wednesday, and Wednesday DOESN"T HAVE A PERSONALITY!" case closed. Ditto Jacksonville, Ditto.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

We definately blew the chance to create a legacy project from hosting the super bowl.  That game was probably the best chance to take advantage of momentum to expand a line down to the stadium.  Houston pulled it off a year before we did and now they have a very successful starter rail system spurring new development in the areas it serves.

[Keith-N-Jax]

I still remember the banners back in the day We're on our way to the Gator Bowl. So in fact the skyway would have been in placed even before we were awarded the Jags. Lake can u run for the planning and development dept. I'll vote 4 u.

[alta]

Lake needs to be the department head for planning and development.  Is that an appointed position?  Probably not.  But they probably wouldn't want him anyways cuz he would make fools of the city leadership.  lol

[Coolyfett]

3.  Would the Skyway look 'out of place' heading further down Park Street?  For example, are there any tracts of appreciable 'historical fabric' buildings amongst which a SkyWay would look incongruous?

I don't think I'd run it down Park Street (I assume you're talking about the heart of Five Points?).  You'll face heavy opposition from the Riverside/Avondale community.

Humblest apologies.  My geography is apparently not what it used to be.  I wasn't thinking about 5 Points per se.  Where the current maintenance shed is... Google Earth says its May Street. 

Parallel it to Riverside or else run it down Riverside itself.  That's where I meant originally:  down Riverside/May to say, I-95, to serve the YMCA/St. Joe/Everbank Plaza/Fidelity/BC-BS?  Once past I-95 in that direction it gets more heavily 'historical'-like, and *there*, IMO, it wouldn't be as congruous a fit. 

Not at all, I know that Riverside has Right-of-way already included in it for the Skyway as far as I-95, which would leave Park or Myrtle open to streetcars. But hey, this is YOUR SKYWAY, you tell me!

Fascinating.  Was not aware of that.  Good to know.  I'm all over that then.

Man the BEST place to put the Riverside Skyway station is at the corner of Post and Park, across the street from the church in front of the pond!!!  That is the best place to end the line, it won't bother any historic places, easy access to 5 points, Publix, Memorial Park, Entrance to North Bank Riverwalk. Look at that location when you drive by...it screams Skyway Station!!

I like the idea of going down Forest Street to Park Street.


Now if I owned the Skyway system, I would announce the expansion, but the people will vote on the legs priority. There would be 4 legs North/Springfield, West/Riverside, East/Sport Complex, South/San Marco/Philips Hwy. Everyone in the Duval-Jacksonville line can vote, the leg that receives the most votes gets built first, so we can pace ourselves on the building. There won't be a stupid "whether or not vote", but a "where" vote. I think the east line would get the most votes, followed by West, South & North. The system would be complete by 2030. The people that want to escape the madness will move closer to these areas. They will have about 20 stations to choose from.

Upgrade the fare system, get rid of the ShowBiz Pizza change machines!!!...bring in vendor boxes. People use their debit and credit cards now. No one walks with quarters!! Options: 1 way card, round trip card, Unlimited Day card, Unlimited Week card, Unlimited Month card.  All cards in a machine that takes coins, bills, debit & credit. Use the card to access the train island.

Very important that Greyhound and JTA move to Union Station...Give/Sell the old JTA/Rosa Parks land to FCCJ. Destroy the greyhound building!! Bring in mix use buildings Condos, Hotel, Apartments, Shops, Bars. That Greyhound land is so important, the city needs to get them over to the Union station like they plan.

Now that that is out of the way,

Going East: First keep going straight down Bay, Station at Bay & Laura, Station at Bay & Liberty, Station at Phillip Randolf, Bay & Gatorbowl. put that station right under the overpass. Build that station as a mega station, because it is going to get lots of riders. The back and forth system at the other terminals will NOT work here. Build the station in a circler shape, that way 3 trains (per other legs) can come back to back and leave back to back. Example. North train drops, loops around picks up riders, West train drops, loops around picks up riders, South train drops, loops around picks up riders. Exits and entrance will not happen at the same place like the other stations, it will be too much traffic. I hope I am describing the design properly.  3 Stations total.

Going West: Easy, Station at Brooklyn, Station at Riverside Ave & Forest, Station at Forest & Park Street, Terminal at Park and Post. Don't put a Station near the Cummer or Memorial Park, the Park & Post location would be just fine without bothering any historic folks. Its a 2 minute walk at the most. 4 Stations total.

Going South: I don't know that area well, so I won't be loud and wrong. 3-4 total stations maybe? Terminate at Jackson Square or San Marco Square? Some one give me some advice on the south leg. 

Going North: Rosa Parks Station will be apart of FCCJ campus. Take the train either up Pearl or Main and terminate at 8th Street.  Where is Klutho Park exactly? There is some empty land in the Springfield area. More Mix use developments there. 4 Stations total

Thats my changes. I did the west & east in detail, I am very familiar with those locations.

8 Stations now, 22 total stations when complete. You'd have to be a moron of a developer not to get a piece of that action!!! lol

If you see any corrections or changes that need to be made please post.

Lake your a frigging "G"enius

[Coolyfett]

Wasn't it some claptrap about not wanting to "make ourselves look like cheap capitalists taking advantage..." I just remember it being class act STUPID.

The fact that the ENTIRE WORLD COULD HAVE SEEN a huge stadium with 8 car monorail trains running in and out of a 2nd deck level station on television, and we BLEW IT! What would that have done for the "I don't know where Jacksonville is coach..., image?" Imagine the chatter in Spanish, French, German, Russian, Chinese, Japanese and maybe 80 other languages around the globe as the cameras keep panning back to the scene of    J - A - C - K - S - O - N - V - I - L - L - E and it''s futuristic transit system...

Reminds me of an incident behind the scenes of the filming of the Addams Family movie. The director told little Wednesday, "Put some personality into it, give us a smile at ....." The little actress walked away then spun around and stared down the director and said matter-of-factly, "LOOK, I'm Wednesday, and Wednesday DOESN"T HAVE A PERSONALITY!" case closed. Ditto Jacksonville, Ditto.

OCKLAWAHA

I honestly believe the SB will be back Ock. One thing that Jax has going in it is in the south! Detroit should never get one as well as Chicago and New York. The down south owners have weather on their side. I think New Orleans should get another one, just for sympathy reasons.


Miami - 9    
New Orleans - 9   
Los Angeles  - 7   
Tampa Bay - 3    
San Diego - 3    
Houston - 2   
Detroit - 2    
Atlanta - 2    
Phoenix - 2    
San Francisco- 1    
Minneapolis- 1    
Jacksonville- 1

Future Super Bowl host cities

2009 - Tampa Bay (4)

2010 - Miami (10)

2011 - Dallas (1)

2012 - Indianapolis (1)

The league is set til 2012.

Indianapolis doesn't need to get one they have the Indy 500. LA is off the map "right now"

Both Bob McNair(Hou) & Arthur Blank(Atl) are trying to eat!!! Seriously! Mr Weaver needs to snatch up a chair at the table. So lets say 6 -7 seasons...JTA, COJ, need to get started on something. Jacksonville could easily get one if the 2015, 2016, 2017 SBs!....damn this is its own thread.