Shands & The S-Line: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is!

[Metro Jacksonville]

Shands & The S-Line: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is!



Redeveloping the area around the Shands [Medical Center] campus will likely ensure the opportunity for growth and could enhance the hospital's reputation. We are going to make sure we do all we can to create an environment where they can grow more and have a stronger presence here for all the right reasons. Mayor Peyton - Jacksonville Business Journal 5/25/07

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/448

[JUSTDAVE]

there is a better chance someone along the s line needs to go to some other place along the s line than anyone along the skyway needing to go anywhere along the skyway

[thelakelander]

The funny thing is using the S-Line ROW, as a segment for regional mass transit, would help feed riders (headed downtown) onto the Skyway, via the planned transportation center, instead of bus rapid transit, which would compete against it, because planners have this notion that no one wants to ever transfer.  

If that line of thinking continues, then the skyway would be better off as a jogging track, considering the amount of money invested in it.  Knowing JTA, they'd probably find a way to stick buses up there, lol.

[Jeremiah]

I must cry a bit of ignorance on this point (shame on the architect).  I had not before known that mass transit developments like this were such a hot button topic.  Obviously Mass Transit is an issue that any major city needs to address intelligently and diligently.  Whether Jacksonville has the proper "resources" for such an undertaking is unlikely given the current make-up of elected officials, but I think hope is still alive.  
What I would like to propose, and hopefully I can get our local Emerging Architects Chapter involved, is to propose a series of sites along the S-Line, or simply within our urban fabric, for redevelopment potential.  We, either EA or myself and a couple of others, develop those sites into a cohesive master plan for development and present that plan to the city in very large format so that they can't ignore it.  There has already been enough research done just by MetroJacksonville on the topic of Mass Transit redevelopment and infrastructure to springboard the whole thing.  If we couple that with solid design solutions, and get some press for it, then there is little chance that the city officials could ignore it.  
Any thoughts?    

[thelakelander]

Jeremiah, that sounds like a pretty good idea and we would be up to doing what we can to help Emerging Architects out in a study of potential transit oriented development sites (there's several) along the S-Line and in the Inner City.  

Whether Jacksonville has the proper "resources" for such an undertaking is unlikely given the current make-up of elected officials, but I think hope is still alive.

Our lack of proper "resources" (financially) is exactly why we should take a serious look at the S-Line as being a part of our city's future mass transit network.  

1. Its a 4 mile abandoned rail corridor still free of development.

2. Its already city owned and grade separated at major expressway crossings.

3. The path, actually travels where people live and work in Jacksonville's densest pedestrian friendly neighborhoods.

4. The potential to spur market rate TODs along the route is great, due to the abundance of city owned land along the right-of-way and remaining unique brick structures from the warehousing era of the early 20th century.

5. It directly ties Gateway Mall to the Prime Osborn, both of which, serve as the start/endpoints for JTA's planned BRT system's north route.

6. Its at least ten times cheaper than going with what the city and JTA already have planned with BRT.

Once you realize this route is already in city ownership, clear of development and would save the city/JTA money on mass transit costs, you really begin to question the true reason of why we're letting this potential resource of market rate economic energy roll right between our legs.

[Ocklawaha]

Looks like a case for "Modern Streetcar" to me. Of course in the wisdom of JTA it's easy to see why ONLY they think BRT is the answer. The numbers speak for themselves. America has ALWAYS had a "love affair" with rail transportation. People will ride a rail vehicle, but not a bus. JTA can have BRT built to look like a LRV, hide the rubber tires, tell us "Think Rail and Ride the Bus," until they are blue in the face!
It WILL NOT WORK!

Data compiled by the American Public Transportation Association reveal that, over the decade 1990-2000, total passenger-miles carried by US public transit increased at a very impressive pace â€" nearly 16%, or over 6.5 billion passenger-miles. (See table below.) And, of that growth, approximately 84% is accounted for by America's rail transit systems.

Bus (including BRT) accounted for 1.2% of Transit Growth
Light Rail accounted for 137.5% of Transit Growth

Passenger-Mileage, Growth, and Percentage Growth
Millions of Passenger-Miles, 1990-2000 ( Source:American Public Transportation )Associan

Ocklawaha

[Lunican]

This is one of my favorite proposed plans. Unfortunately I don't think the city is interested in taking on projects like this. It's too much work, and they get paid whether they do it or not. The public really needs to start demanding more from their elected and appointed leaders.

[Johnny]

As usual, nice piece. Unfortunately, I have a feeling you are preaching to the choir at this point. The majority that reads these articles are sold and have probably even sent some emails to the political powers that be.  :'(

[Jeremiah]

Dan, I agree with you.  But I think the reason that the city is not overly interested in real solutions to mass transit is a multi-faceted one.  First, they lack real vision for the city.  They concentrate on half measures and lines of thought that never get carried through to any viable or rational conclusion.  Secondly, and I may again be a little ignorant on this point, the city doesn't seem to be getting any real heat about what they are, or aren't, doing.  There is the occasional article in TU on page 43 next to the diet advertisements and breast enhancement ads, or in Folio, and of course the scathing exposes done by our dear MetroJacksonville friends.  But for the most part, the "buzz" on the street seems to be a decided disinterest in what is really going on.  Perhaps we take for granted that we have vested ourselves in the future of the city, but the vast majority of the populous has not.  While that is a shame, it falls on us to raise the level of awareness to the great majority and get them involved and caring about their city.  How exactly we do that I know not, but I'm sure there is a way.  The bottom line for all of us, it seems, is that change needs to happen and it needs to happen soon.  I'm sure many of us have sent letters and emails to the City Officials, but obviously they are falling on deaf ears.  True change needs to start and it should start with us in the form of decided action.  EA will be having a meeting the third tuesday of June and I'll be bringing up this subject.  One way or the other I'll get a couple of people together to start thinking about this in a very real way.

[Ocklawaha]

How we might effect a revolution! You cruising a local freeway or bridge, suddenly there is a big ol billboard that says...

Do you want another bus? Or a finished Skyway and Light Rail?
MET-JAX.com etc...

A photo of an empty bus, monorail and Modern Streetcar would round it out. I predict this web site would be overrun with newbies!

Ocklawaha

[Charles Hunter]

As usual, good article.
Once the City puts down the jogging path / bike trail the land becomes a "public park" and it becomes much much harder to spend Federal dollars to convert even a portion of it into a transportation use.  The current ownership by Parks and Rec. may be a problem, even in it's fallow state.  Although it was purchased with Federal transportation enhancement funds.
The JTA is about to select a consultant to do a Commuter Rail Feasibility Study.  One of the earliest assignments to that consultant should be to determine the viability of the S-Line for Commuter Rail, including the parks issue.

[JUSTDAVE]

It is nonsensable to post sensable ideas when it comes to transportation. The 1st step to making any good idea prosper is to find someone well connected who can a fortune on the idea. by that time what actually costs less isn't clear. BRT is clearly a goldmine for the well connected. Good ideas like this one only will help us serve the community if someone actually is forced to do more with less. Anyone who is an advocate for senseable ideas should also be an advocate for lower taxes.    

[Gerry]

The number of employees at UF&Shands, UF Proton, the V.A. Clinic and Public Health  exceeds 5,000, not the 1,100 earlier stated.  Nearly a thousand are U.F. faculty and students.  Many of these folks actually live in the areas the S-Line Trolley would serve.  In other words, thousands could take the train to work and be on time, solving parking and fuel problems.  

The S-line would not be as convenient for those living in Springfield, as it would almost be as easy to walk downtown as to walk to a  train station north of the ER, though it would be the quickest and easiest way between Historic Springfield and the mall, and Springfielders would be enthusiastic riders.  Also, the S-line would greatly assist the warehouse district just north of east Springfield (12th St.) which is in process of being developed as an area for art and business lofts and condos.  What a jump start.  

Imagine folks taking the trains from San Marco or Durkeeville to FCCJ and UF&Shands and E.12th St. to go to work, play, study, shop, get treatment at these developing corners of Springfield; and then on to the Mall..

 Finally, jogging/bicycle/horse trails exist side by side with trolley tracks all over the world . . . it's not one or the other.  A light barrier is all that is needed to separate the two.  There is no legitimate reason to limit this corridor to an either/or solution.  

Finally #2, the last thing Jacksonville needs is yet another strip of concrete.  Boston pulled down their elevateds, and now Seattle, having just built them, is talkng about their own big dig to reclaim and re-unite their city.  The Bus route would have to be built at great expense and to the detriment of the community.  The rail is in place.  It is owned and relatively inexpensive to convert to trolley and cycling/walking use. The entire northside would win, as would San Marco residents, and all institutions such as UF&Shands, UFProton, the V.A., Public Health, FCCJ, the developing warehouse loft district; as well as city budgeting, joggers, walkers and cyclists.

[Ocklawaha]

Imagine the "S" line, single track, built to railroad standards. It runs from Transportation Center to the Shands complex. Beyond Shands, it turns down Pearl, heads back downtown, a Jog on Duval to Lee and South on Lee brings it back to TC.
Add a second Heritage route using Lee to Water to Independence to Newnan to Beaver to Stadium and return on Duval back to Lee. Main Street is another possible route Newnan to Beaver/State or Union to Main to 8th to Pearl and return on the S line.  Building this "S" route to railroad standards would allow us to use it for DMU service at some future date (at the same time we could add a second track for LRT or Modern Streetcar). We must keep up the pressure to FORCE JTA to do the will of the people and quit driving over us!

Ocklawaha

[lynnegh]

Why are all the previous comments dated last May?

And, Ocklawaha, please tell me that the following is either a typo or a mis-print:

Bus (including BRT) accounted for 1.2% of Transit Growth
Light Rail accounted for 137.5% of Transit Growth

And y'all seem to be making the blithe assumption that people are going to be cheerful about walking to that station from Shands, whilst the truth is that people are afraid to walk to the parking lots immediately surrounding the complex for fear of rapists and muggers.  Surely you don't subscribe to the theory that tearing down those "high-crime" apartment complex is going to eliminate the problem.

All that said, I still think, as I have for the past 20 years, that the rail system is the way to go.  The BRT is hopelessly stupid, especially considering that JTA will constantly have to reduce service as the price of fuel continues to soar.