Convention Centers: How do we compare?

[FlaBoy]

Can I throw out a crazy idea? Atlanta, Orlando, and Tampa have great venues. Miami Beach and Ft. Lauderdale are the only larger convention centers near a beach. People love the beach and the beach is the bar/nightlife entertainment capital of North Florida. What if you put together a huge public/private deal with some upscale hotel and convention center on the beach?

You could....but I'm not sure why COJ would contribute to this then. Though COJ technically comprises all of Duval County, the Beaches are quasi-independent; in the manner that St. Augustine is separate from St John's County.

Generally convention centers are Public Private Partnerships, and I'd think that this doesn't happen without some COJ money (up front or over time).

One of the reasons I'm in favor of a convention center is to help out the retail scene during the week. If a nightclub/restaurant just had to turn a profit Thursday/Friday/Saturday, there would be a lot more places downtown. The convention business helps out dramatically Mon-Wed.....just look at San Diego.

For sure. There would have to be a deal made on revenues. Remember though, in Orlando, it is the Orange County Convention Center.

Beach people may not want it there but I am telling you that it may be most successful there. Northbank DT is just a long way away from being a 7 day a week destination. There is major opportunity to bring a lot more tourists even outside conventions to Duval with something like this on the Beach.

[Adam White]

Our convention center is not drawing conventions from the appropriately sized groups that need a space that size.

Why are we talking about building a larger one?

So that it can underperform on a grander scale?

The "build it and they will come" approach is seductive, but we've been down that route before.

[FlaBoy]

Find your niche in the market. Just saying, if I were planning a convention, maybe I do it at the Hyatt if that is big enough but I would much rather go to a city that has something to do around the convention center rather than on an island surrounded by grass parking lots.

[spuwho]

This memo just came in from the Mayors office.

"There will be no discussion on convention centers until the pension tax is passed"

 

[Steve]

Can I throw out a crazy idea? Atlanta, Orlando, and Tampa have great venues. Miami Beach and Ft. Lauderdale are the only larger convention centers near a beach. People love the beach and the beach is the bar/nightlife entertainment capital of North Florida. What if you put together a huge public/private deal with some upscale hotel and convention center on the beach?

You could....but I'm not sure why COJ would contribute to this then. Though COJ technically comprises all of Duval County, the Beaches are quasi-independent; in the manner that St. Augustine is separate from St John's County.

Generally convention centers are Public Private Partnerships, and I'd think that this doesn't happen without some COJ money (up front or over time).

One of the reasons I'm in favor of a convention center is to help out the retail scene during the week. If a nightclub/restaurant just had to turn a profit Thursday/Friday/Saturday, there would be a lot more places downtown. The convention business helps out dramatically Mon-Wed.....just look at San Diego.

For sure. There would have to be a deal made on revenues. Remember though, in Orlando, it is the Orange County Convention Center.

Beach people may not want it there but I am telling you that it may be most successful there. Northbank DT is just a long way away from being a 7 day a week destination. There is major opportunity to bring a lot more tourists even outside conventions to Duval with something like this on the Beach.

I can tell you that I go to about 5-6 conventions a year for work, and the locales run the gamut

- Cincinnati wasn't great; Jacksonville could EASILY compete with their facility - putting aside the geographic differences. There is a small entertainment area on the river between the Reds and Bengals stadiums, but the convention center is just far enough away to have no synergy.
- Chicago is awesome but anyone will tell you the immediate area around McCormick place doesn't offer a ton to do (outside of the massive Hyatt Hotel), but a few miles away where the rest of the hotels are. Apples and Oranges to Jax.
- New York's Javits Center used to be in MUCH more of an isolated area. Now, it's basically just part of the city - awesome location but astronomically expensive to hold a convention there. Apples and Oranges to Jax.
- Atlanta is surrounded by a lot of other event places and CNN Center. Believe it or not, I think Jacksonville can compete here on the smaller shows that don't need the massive space that GWCC has. For a smaller show, it's actually a giant PITA.
- Orlando's is not really walkable to much, but totally Apples and Oranges to Jax.
- Vegas is well.....let's not even go here.
- San Diego might have the perfect setup - their facility is at the foot of the Gaslamp District, which doesn't seem to have many locals during the week. It's full of business tourists

The point is that the convention center doesn't have to be around anything. In fact, onsite/adjacent hotels love it - they have a captive audience. If you have a facility that works, businesses will consider it for sure.

[Steve]

This memo just came in from the Mayors office.

"There will be no discussion on convention centers until the pension tax is passed"

 

lol - pretty sure you can replace "convention centers" with anything except for hiring Police/Fire

[spuwho]

Can I throw out a crazy idea? Atlanta, Orlando, and Tampa have great venues. Miami Beach and Ft. Lauderdale are the only larger convention centers near a beach. People love the beach and the beach is the bar/nightlife entertainment capital of North Florida. What if you put together a huge public/private deal with some upscale hotel and convention center on the beach?

You could....but I'm not sure why COJ would contribute to this then. Though COJ technically comprises all of Duval County, the Beaches are quasi-independent; in the manner that St. Augustine is separate from St John's County.

Generally convention centers are Public Private Partnerships, and I'd think that this doesn't happen without some COJ money (up front or over time).

One of the reasons I'm in favor of a convention center is to help out the retail scene during the week. If a nightclub/restaurant just had to turn a profit Thursday/Friday/Saturday, there would be a lot more places downtown. The convention business helps out dramatically Mon-Wed.....just look at San Diego.

For sure. There would have to be a deal made on revenues. Remember though, in Orlando, it is the Orange County Convention Center.

Beach people may not want it there but I am telling you that it may be most successful there. Northbank DT is just a long way away from being a 7 day a week destination. There is major opportunity to bring a lot more tourists even outside conventions to Duval with something like this on the Beach.

I can tell you that I go to about 5-6 conventions a year for work, and the locales run the gamut

- Cincinnati wasn't great; Jacksonville could EASILY compete with their facility - putting aside the geographic differences. There is a small entertainment area on the river between the Reds and Bengals stadiums, but the convention center is just far enough away to have no synergy.
- Chicago is awesome but anyone will tell you the immediate area around McCormick place doesn't offer a ton to do (outside of the massive Hyatt Hotel), but a few miles away where the rest of the hotels are. Apples and Oranges to Jax.
- New York's Javits Center used to be in MUCH more of an isolated area. Now, it's basically just part of the city - awesome location but astronomically expensive to hold a convention there. Apples and Oranges to Jax.
- Atlanta is surrounded by a lot of other event places and CNN Center. Believe it or not, I think Jacksonville can compete here on the smaller shows that don't need the massive space that GWCC has. For a smaller show, it's actually a giant PITA.
- Orlando's is not really walkable to much, but totally Apples and Oranges to Jax.
- Vegas is well.....let's not even go here.
- San Diego might have the perfect setup - their facility is at the foot of the Gaslamp District, which doesn't seem to have many locals during the week. It's full of business tourists

The point is that the convention center doesn't have to be around anything. In fact, onsite/adjacent hotels love it - they have a captive audience. If you have a facility that works, businesses will consider it for sure.

I too used to ply the convention circuit for work and used to support them as well from another employer.

- Chicago McCormick Place is great for large shows like the Auto Show, CES, Hardware & Tool Show. I went to one of the last Comdex shows there and it was a lot of overhead for very little benefit.  Comdex finally gave up due to the high union labor costs.  They have amended many of those labor agreements since then, but just to get an ethernet cable, a curtain moved or a device plugged in required a union contractor. Very expensive.

- Queen Elizabeth II Center, London. This place is unique and it fools you just how much square footage they really have.  First time I have worked in a terrorist resistant convention center by design. (thanks to the IRA) Was understaffed and struggled with many US biz requirements. Only one large hall, but was able to support a large number of small events due to the partitioned design of the center.  Of note, the QEII Center has no parking lot.  It's either by cab or by tube. Since it is across the street from Westminster Abbey, it affords wonderful views, but the eating choices in and around Sanctuary is not all that great unless you only want pub food.

- Washington State Convention Center Seattle. This place keeps changing, I am not sure I could speak to it anymore as they have remodeled it at least twice since I there for a Microsoft event. Plus, Seattle has beefed up the hotel and transit support around the center by a large factor in the past 10 years.  My only note was that the number of levels because it sits over a freeway on the side of a hill. Which meant lots of stairs or escalators.

- Indiana Convention Center Indianapolis.  A good healthy mid size convention center, connected to its sports stadium and able to support mutiple uses. Many large expansions were vetoed at times as unsustainable, but it seems to be sized appropriately now after the Lucas Oil Stadium was finished.

- Orange County Convention Center Orlando.  A goliath sized monstrosity on I-Drive.  I have been to several quite large conventions there and it still wasn't used at capacity.  Parking lots so large and underused, they probably have to spray for weeds twice a year to keep up.  While it is gaining a hotel following in the past 5 years which improves its walk-ability factor, it will take more than a proposed maglev to improve its accessibility.  This one is popular due to its proximity to Disney and I-Drive amenities, this has got be getting a healthy liner to its pocket.

[thelakelander]

- Washington State Convention Center Seattle. This place keeps changing, I am not sure I could speak to it anymore as they have remodeled it at least twice since I there for a Microsoft event. Plus, Seattle has beefed up the hotel and transit support around the center by a large factor in the past 10 years.  My only note was that the number of levels because it sits over a freeway on the side of a hill. Which meant lots of stairs or escalators.

I go to at least 3 or 4 conventions of various size every year. I went to Seattle specifically last year because of a convention at the WSCC. I spent money staying at a nearby hotel and numerous restaurants and bars in the vicinity.  I also spent money at Pikes Place Market and on a  few tours. I loved the way Seattle's center was laid out. It was mixed-use with retail in certain areas and meeting space above. I also liked the green space built over the highway.  Many people at the convention took advantage of the fresh air and quietness of that space. I never would have went to Seattle if not for the convention. 

I'm planning to attend another convention at Tampa's convention center in September and could possibly help with the coordination of hosting another in Daytona Beach in 2017. I see an economic benefit to these spaces. However, like comparing Charthouse to garlic crab hole-in-the-wall on the Northside, they all shouldn't be compared apples to apples and they don't compete head to head. Whatever Jax's niche is, it should focus on that and its facilities should be top notch and ideally located to generate the most ROI possible. Don't worry about competing with Orlando or Chicago. Focus on keeping your hometown events from getting to big and moving to Daytona or Huntsville, AL because we don't have a suitable space available for them.

[FlaBoy]

This memo just came in from the Mayors office.

"There will be no discussion on convention centers until the pension tax is passed"

 

35 days!!!

[FlaBoy]

- Washington State Convention Center Seattle. This place keeps changing, I am not sure I could speak to it anymore as they have remodeled it at least twice since I there for a Microsoft event. Plus, Seattle has beefed up the hotel and transit support around the center by a large factor in the past 10 years.  My only note was that the number of levels because it sits over a freeway on the side of a hill. Which meant lots of stairs or escalators.

I go to at least 3 or 4 conventions of various size every year. I went to Seattle specifically last year because of a convention at the WSCC. I spent money staying at a nearby hotel and numerous restaurants and bars in the vicinity.  I also spent money at Pikes Place Market and on a  few tours. I loved the way Seattle's center was laid out. It was mixed-use with retail in certain areas and meeting space above. I also liked the green space built over the highway.  Many people at the convention took advantage of the fresh air and quietness of that space. I never would have went to Seattle if not for the convention. 

I'm planning to attend another convention at Tampa's convention center in September and could possibly help with the coordination of hosting another in Daytona Beach in 2017. I see an economic benefit to these spaces. However, like comparing Charthouse to garlic crab hole-in-the-wall on the Northside, they all shouldn't be compared apples to apples and they don't compete head to head. Whatever Jax's niche is, it should focus on that and its facilities should be top notch and ideally located to generate the most ROI possible. Don't worry about competing with Orlando or Chicago. Focus on keeping your hometown events from getting to big and moving to Daytona or Huntsville, AL because we don't have a suitable space available for them.

Lake,

What do you think about the possibility of the Beach for a large hotel and a medium sized convention center?

What other spots make sense?

[thelakelander]

I think a convention center at the Beach would require land acquisition, blocks of demolition and the extra cost of getting another hotel operator to open a second convention center hotel in a market that can barely support the one it does have.

After hearing multiple sides of this debate for more than a decade now and seeing 11 sites evaluated back in 2004, I think the courthouse site next to the Hyatt is best for several reasons previously mentioned over the years.

[FlaBoy]

I think a convention center at the Beach would require land acquisition, blocks of demolition and the extra cost of getting another hotel operator to open a second convention center hotel in a market that can barely support the one it does have.

After hearing multiple sides of this debate for more than a decade now and seeing 11 sites evaluated back in 2004, I think the courthouse site next to the Hyatt is best for several reasons previously mentioned over the years.

Do you have a copy of that report?

[Adam White]

- Queen Elizabeth II Center, London. This place is unique and it fools you just how much square footage they really have.  First time I have worked in a terrorist resistant convention center by design. (thanks to the IRA) Was understaffed and struggled with many US biz requirements. Only one large hall, but was able to support a large number of small events due to the partitioned design of the center.  Of note, the QEII Center has no parking lot.  It's either by cab or by tube. Since it is across the street from Westminster Abbey, it affords wonderful views, but the eating choices in and around Sanctuary is not all that great unless you only want pub food.

The ExCeL Centre is probably the main convention center in London now. You can drive to it - and there's not much of anything at all around it. It's in a pretty crap area. Depending on the size of the event, there are also places the the Olympia (in West Kensington) and Earl's Court exhibition centre, etc. But you have to take public transport to get to those.

[thelakelander]

MetJax is no longer online.I'm scanning Google and have not found it yet. However, I did stumble across the 2007 study: 

https://www.scribd.com/document/87347374/07-Convention-Center

http://www.powershow.com/view/34839-YzdkZ/Feasibility_Study_for_an_ExpandedNew_Convention_Center_in_Jacksonville_powerpoint_ppt_presentation

[thelakelander]

Also, here's a 2004 thread from Urban Planet on the 2005 study. Once we left and created MetJax, a moderator there changed my screen name from thelakelander to bobliocatt...

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/4090-convention-center-issue-looms-for-mayor/


A map showing 8 downtown sites is included in a post in this 2005 Urban Planet thread:



https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/9291-still-looking-for-a-convention-center/


The site in the stadium district won out in this particular study:

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2005/08/01/story2.html