WHEN MJ CHOSE THE BUSES... (How will the anti-transit Orungutan's counter this?)

[Ocklawaha]

"Highways, NOT TRANSIT, don't you get it? Automobiles! I refuse to look at public transit ideas..."

Here are the results for the 10 day poll on HIGHWAY transit vehicles, based on a basic downtown shuttle type system, with the opportunity for certain other special case routes left open for study. Meaning, while this poll was talking mostly about downtown, it didn't rule out a special bus at Town Center, or between the 3 Southside shopping meccas etc... It did NOT include commuter rail or streetcar, and it did not include our regular mainline diesel bus fleet. This is the result of a poll that should tell us what you had rather ride around the downtown or the office park. Guess what JTA? It wasn't a Potato-Chip-Truck!

DIESEL JTA TROLLEY  3 (14.3%)
ELECTRIC VINTAGE BUS  3 (14.3%)
DIESEL POTATO CHIP TRUCK  0 (0%)
ELECTRIC MODERN BUS  4 (19%)
ELECTRIC TROLLEY BUS  11 (52.4%)





THE WINNING STYLE GETS SOME FAMILY PHOTOS...

OCKLAWAHA

[ProjectMaximus]

Which are the three Southside shopping meccas? And I think you've just offended orangutans across the world.

[Ocklawaha]

It didn't take the highway lobby boys long to respond to the post on mass transit. They left me an audio disk last night which I now pass on to y'all.

I just don't understand these guys.

http://soundboard.com/sb/orangutan_sounds.aspx

OCKLAWAHA

[apvbguy]

It didn't take the highway lobby boys long to respond to the post on mass transit. They left me an audio disk last night which I now pass on to y'all.

I just don't understand these guys.

http://soundboard.com/sb/orangutan_sounds.aspx

OCKLAWAHA

I am not going to listen to that link, if you have to resort to jv tactics like the orangutan to make your point, it is point that will not be perceived to be of any value.
You transit geeks have got to stop trying to demonize those who aren't on the dame page as you are

[Ocklawaha]

"What a Pisser..."

I am not going to listen to that link, if you have to resort to jv tactics like the orangutan to make your point, it is point that will not be perceived to be of any value.
You transit geeks have got to stop trying to demonize those who aren't on the dame page as you are

I would hardly call an orangutan a demon, in fact, I find them fascinating creations. Leaving the inner workings of their minds to the scientific community, it is hard to justify the fact that they travel alone. Their survival would be much more assured is they were willing to bunch up, as Chimps and Humans do.

The point of the post is that Jacksonville citizens have a solid opinion on the type of bus system they would like to see in the urban core, or other specialty dense routes. Your own lack of perception of a light hearted delivery as jv, is exceeded only by your sense of humor. You will never be forced to ride the MJ bus, you could always piggyback with the great red haired primate.

Smile sometimes, it's good for your heart!

OCKLAWAHA

[apvbguy]

"What a Pisser..."

I am not going to listen to that link, if you have to resort to jv tactics like the orangutan to make your point, it is point that will not be perceived to be of any value.
You transit geeks have got to stop trying to demonize those who aren't on the dame page as you are

I would hardly call an orangutan a demon, in fact, I find them fascinating creations. Leaving the inner workings of their minds to the scientific community, it is hard to justify the fact that they travel alone. Their survival would be much more assured is they were willing to bunch up, as Chimps and Humans do.

The point of the post is that Jacksonville citizens have a solid opinion on the type of bus system they would like to see in the urban core, or other specialty dense routes. Your own lack of perception of a light hearted delivery as jv, is exceeded only by your sense of humor. You will never be forced to ride the MJ bus, you could always piggyback with the great red haired primate.

Smile sometimes, it's good for your heart!

OCKLAWAHA

nice try but just like obama didn't mean anything by the pig comment, your using a primate to represent auto users is insulting and sophomoric,  the transit advocates and the urban pioneers need to learn to be less confrontational and learn how to work with EVERYONE to further their dreams of decent mass transit in JAX

[cline]

The point of the post is that Jacksonville citizens have a solid opinion on the type of bus system they would like to see in the urban core, or other specialty dense routes.

Actually, this post does not represent the opinion of all Jacksonville citizens, it represents the opinion of readers of the Metro Jacksonville website. 

[apvbguy]

The point of the post is that Jacksonville citizens have a solid opinion on the type of bus system they would like to see in the urban core, or other specialty dense routes.

Actually, this post does not represent the opinion of all Jacksonville citizens, it represents the opinion of readers of the Metro Jacksonville website. 

ah, a fresh and rational voice, welcome

[Ocklawaha]

Which are the three Southside shopping meccas? And I think you've just offended orangutans across the world.

Thinking along the line of Regency-Town Center-Avenues/Avenues Walk, 3 huge destinations more or less in a row. Some sort of shopping connector on a fixed route might really draw the ridership.

Yeah, I know about those orangutans, I feel sorry for them already. Based on the lack of humor some have displayed here, maybe "warthogs" would have been a better choice. There was once a really funny magazine called "WONDER WARTHOG". But I'm sure they wouldn't get it, just as they are completely missing the orangutan joke.

OCKLAWAHA

[apvbguy]

Which are the three Southside shopping meccas? And I think you've just offended orangutans across the world.

Thinking along the line of Regency-Town Center-Avenues/Avenues Walk, 3 huge destinations more or less in a row. Some sort of shopping connector on a fixed route might really draw the ridership.

Yeah, I know about those orangutans, I feel sorry for them already. Based on the lack of humor some have displayed here, maybe "warthogs" would have been a better choice. There was once a really funny magazine called "WONDER WARTHOG". But I'm sure they wouldn't get it, just as they are completely missing the orangutan joke.

OCKLAWAHA

you can try and use your cute but silly metaphors but your concepts in many cases are half baked and are not viable

[apvbguy]

Which are the three Southside shopping meccas? And I think you've just offended orangutans across the world.

Thinking along the line of Regency-Town Center-Avenues/Avenues Walk, 3 huge destinations more or less in a row. Some sort of shopping connector on a fixed route might really draw the ridership.

Yeah, I know about those orangutans, I feel sorry for them already. Based on the lack of humor some have displayed here, maybe "warthogs" would have been a better choice. There was once a really funny magazine called "WONDER WARTHOG". But I'm sure they wouldn't get it, just as they are completely missing the orangutan joke.

OCKLAWAHA

you can try and use your cute but silly metaphors but your concepts in many cases are half baked and are not viable

Apvbeach guy.  Just so that you know, Ocklawaha has written several of the actual history books that you would read on the subject of trains, and was the NATIONAL Director of Transportation for Columbia, with 40 years of national experience in transportation.

You probably could not speak to a more informed or knowledgeable person on this subject if you tried.

My guess is that none us, including yourself, have anywhere near the experience to challenge most of Bob's opinions with much chance of success.

His speaking style is colorful and interesting, but you will find that his insight into transit is rock freaking solid.

I have found that you dismiss his input only at the risk of appearing stupid.

sounds like you're having trouble being civil. I am not dismissing his ideas but I am dismissing his confrontational and sophomoric comments. Many of his schemes are way too overblown and cannot be justified and he seems to believe that there is a pot of money stashed away that will fund the capital costs ( (building things like rail lines and stations, which in the scheme of things is minimal ) and it's continued operations. history has shown that mass transit/ passenger rail cannot be operated without massive government subsidies funded through massive taxes increases in localities that have mass transit systems. The argument can be made that mass transit systems serve the public good and deserve to be funded with taxes on everyone in the region that a system serves, but again history has proven that taxes on the broad population are unpalatable so sneaky hidden taxes are used like additional fuel taxes, taxes on businesses, utility taxes, parking taxes and so on.  while some of the mass transit ideas put forth here sound wonderful and could even improve things for some, little focus has been placed on how these transit plans will be paid for to be built and where the funding will come from for it's operations in the future.
hence my comments that some of his ideas are not viable and half baked.

[Ocklawaha]

you can try and use your cute but silly metaphors but your concepts in many cases are half baked and are not viable

Oraungtan's not withstanding, the concept for a shopper connector is just to give the general public an idea of other dense corridors where these vehicles could be of service in the city. The electric bus would do a lot for downtown or anywhere else we took it. It's clean, quiet-almost silent, attracts TOD and TAD's, and works VERY well with BRT (Bostons Silver Line).

The idea here is the downtown PCT-Trolley things REALLY ARE just a bus, built to look like a streetcar-abortion-that-lived. They REALLY ARE built on the same frame and engine "Freightliner" as UPS, or Frito Lay trucks, and they ride like it. What do I know of the subject? I know the current "Trolley" fleet will fall apart fast and will need replacement soon. I'm trying to save us some bucks and create some development long-term, through vehicle choice.

OCKLAWAHA

[fightingosprey07]

Ocklawaha,  this is completely off topic, but I have to ask. What happens if one of these electric trolley buses has to swerve to avoid something in the road? How much slack is there in the overhead wire?

[Ocklawaha]

Ocklawaha,  this is completely off topic, but I have to ask. What happens if one of these electric trolley buses has to swerve to avoid something in the road? How much slack is there in the overhead wire?

FIGHTING OSPREY, Not off the subject at all... In fact it's been hijacked!! It WUZ about our choice of trolley buses, LOL.

Your question is a common but very good one, Trolley buses have twin "trolley poles" for the reason that one cannot ground a system through a rubber tire. So the bus will always have twin wires until the day that solar or battery can take command. Because of this, and a streetcars absolute fixed route, the trolley bus folks figured long ago that they would be somewhere between bus and streetcar in ridership. To compliment the streetcars doing the heavy work, the buses had to run on time. To address this on smaller local streets they had to come up with a system for the swerve or passing another car. The twin trolley poles are very long, and extend on a pivot. The electric trolley bus can swing (in a near lane) right around the stalled car, UPS truck or crime scene. Not a problem.


Take a close look at this trolley bus at the CURB in Edmondton. It is no where near the main wires, but has moved into another lane to pick up passengers. Likewise, it CAN pass.

Allow me to add that the reason you would not want ALL trolley bus when we could have streetcar AND trolley bus is that streetcar can be built to handle future LRT needs. MUCH bigger vehicles and able to entrain with more then one car - per driver. Also the life span on electrics is better then Diesel, BUT, buses are buses and still have the wear and tear time limits that rail doesn't share. So you build rail on the projected heavy routes, and trolley bus on the dense feeders downtown. The Skyway plays the role as our MAINLINE (yes folks I said that, over the streetcars) it can handle the future "SUBWAY" role for Jacksonville. Hope this helps and welcome to the discussion.

OCKLAWAHA

[apvbguy]

maybe this is the wrong thread for this but here's something I found today:

Survey: Parking is top lure for visitors to AC
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS • September 11, 2008


ATLANTIC CITY â€" What's the main reason people go to Atlantic City? Hint: it's not gambling.

A new survey by the Atlantic City Convention and Visitors Authority finds gambling ranks seventh on a list of why people choose to come to the resort.

Easy parking topped the list, followed by the convenience of getting to Atlantic City; the ease of getting around within the city; dining options; hotel room availability, and the beach and Boardwalk.

Jeff Vasser, the authority's president, says the yearlong survey of more than 3,000
visitors validates Atlantic City's efforts to transform itself into a destination resort where gambling is only one of the attractions.

Visitors to the resort declined last year to 33 million from 34 million in 2006.

Maybe JAX should look to see what AC is doing right regarding parking, in addition AC has a great jitney system and the equipment used is nothing more than gussied up bread trucks.
Google AC Jitneys for more info