VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE HIGHWAY TRANSIT VEHICLE!

[Ocklawaha]

Considering the Skyway, is not now, or ever will be a "go everywhere" system, it will always have to be helped along in the downtown or near downtown core of the city by other transit vehicles. From the following list, please choose the option you are more likely to ride:

Option ONE: The Famous Diesel powered, "JTA TROLLEY"




Option Two: The "VINTAGE BUS" (cng, lng or Induction battery electric)



Option Three: The diesel powered, JTA "POTATO CHIP TRUCK" in the buff.



Option Four: The Chattanooga Style battery electric shuttle, induction charged at each stop for continious running.



Option Five: The classic double overhead wire - electric "TROLLEY BUS" with fixed routes, can be powered from garbage, wind, solar etc..


Any comments? Quesitons? Suggestions?

OCKLAWAHA

[brainstormer]

Ock, could you include the environmental impact of each one?  It would help me make a more informed decision.  Thanks.

[Charles Hunter]

What? No Streetcar?

[apvbguy]

Ock, could you include the environmental impact of each one?  It would help me make a more informed decision.  Thanks.

more importantly what are the costs of each type of service

[fsujax]

Where's the streetcar???

[Jason]

I don't want any of them, I want streetcars!

[Ocklawaha]

Allow me to explain a bit:

I strongly suspect (due to recently meeting with the JTA director and staff) that they'll be interested in this.

This poll is intended to reflect the current "so-called-Trolleys" downtown. Even with a Streetcar, Commuter Rail and an expanded Skyway, ANY metro as large as Jacksonville is going to still have plenty of smaller market corridors where those more expensive models don't fit in. Also consider a criss-crossing link system that connects stadium-streetcar/5-points-skyway/Commuter Rail-San Marco etc... They'll always be room for a rather fixed route shuttle system.

Enviromental impacts, even the JTA-TROLLEY can be ordered with CNG or LNG engines, other options on ALL OF THE ABOVE are clean, electric, battery or overhead wire. So consider the enviromental impact nearly nil.
I say this because except for battery electric/induction charged (meaning no wires), the vehicles whatever we chose can run off of waste gas from garbage and thus burn off Methane, a dangerous greenhouse gas that is rendered impotent in damage when burned. Thus we earn carbon credits, we don't use them and they can be sold for cash.

For the purpose of this poll:

All vehicles cost about the same in real dollars.

O&M costs on the electric versions are cheaper, and they have longer service life.
Only option one and three would NOT have an electric power option.
Only option five requires any investment in plant, but again, it is long lived and fixed which often attracts development.

VEHICLES - ABOUT EQUAL IN COST
ENVIROMENTAL - ABOUT EQUAL, except for diesel versions which produce carbon and sulfur.

COME ON GUYS AND VOTE! WE'LL WORK ON STREETCARS LATER!

OCKLAWAHA

[brainstormer]

I just voted Ock, and I chose the electric induction shuttle.  If we want this mode of downtown transportation to be more flexible I feel we should refrain from something that needs overhead wires.  Overhead wires make it seem less flexible and more stationary, am I correct?  For example, I'm thinking of our existing trolley routes.  Adjustments have to be made for things like road construction and new development that might require a new stop/destination.  I like the idea of electric because anything that doesn't blow exhaust will only help the core's goal of more pedestrian friendly streets.

[Charles Hunter]

OK, thanks for the explanation.  (Or is that: Ock, thanks for ...)
Question - do the rubber-tire trolley-buses (#5) have the ability to go "off the wire" and operate just like a regular bus?  And if so, what do they run on when not taking power from the overhead wires?  Also, could the same overhead wires power a streetcar?

[Ocklawaha]

You are susposed to be allowed to change your votes too, don't know how it works though!

I just voted Ock, and I chose the electric induction shuttle.  If we want this mode of downtown transportation to be more flexible I feel we should refrain from something that needs overhead wires.  Overhead wires make it seem less flexible and more stationary, am I correct?  For example, I'm thinking of our existing trolley routes.  Adjustments have to be made for things like road construction and new development that might require a new stop/destination.  I like the idea of electric because anything that doesn't blow exhaust will only help the core's goal of more pedestrian friendly streets.

OK, thanks for the explanation.  (Or is that: Ock, thanks for ...)
Question - do the rubber-tire trolley-buses (#5) have the ability to go "off the wire" and operate just like a regular bus?  And if so, what do they run on when not taking power from the overhead wires?  Also, could the same overhead wires power a streetcar?

The electric shuttles are new on the scene but have ran many thousands of miles in theme parks without major trouble. The downside to non-fixed transit, is that it does NOT attract the big money corporate, hotel, retail, restaurant locations that fixed routes do.

Now, for Charles, some of the trolley buses have been delivered with small shuttle engines as back up power. But most are pure electric. They need two wires where streetcars only need one, reason? You can't ground current through rubber tires, so they have +/- wires. The reach of the poles is flexible and they CAN bypass a stalled vehicle stuck at curbside etc.  Otherwise unless we get into some more expensive options I'd consider the electrics dead when off the wire. On the plus side there are about 500 less movings parts to breakdown in an electric motor so relibility is amazing.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Where's the streetcar???

I don't want any of them, I want streetcars!

JUST rubber tires this time... consider "as-if" the transit streetcar, skyway or Commuter Rail were already running, of if they failed, which should we add?  Either way we are going to have to have downtown and neighborhood shuttles.

OCKLAWAHA

[ProjectMaximus]

You are susposed to be allowed to change your votes too, don't know how it works though! 

If you're on the same computer, just click "Remove Vote" and then vote again!

[Ocklawaha]

COME ON IN Y'ALL, only 5 days left to let your opinion be known. We have broken them down, explained them and nobody gets their name or position published (so even JTA guys can vote). Just pick a rubber tired vehicle and choose the one YOU would ride in.

Come to think of it, a trip around town in the back of the potato chip truck wouldn't be all bad...Wonder if it comes with dip??? munchies!

OCKLAWAHA

[Beloki]

I want light rail (streetcar/tram) that can also use the skyway (a double system!)
I used to live in Rotterdam, The Netherlands. I never used the bussystem but I used the tram everyday. Ridership of the light rail exceeded that of the bussystem 10-fold !!

Why can't we ask a company like Siemens to do an assesment of the possibilities?

[Jason]

Given those choices, I'd like the Trolly Bus.  Fixed routes will do so much more to spawn economic growth.