Where Does the Skyway Go From Here?

[brainstormer]

Numerous thoughts to consider.

The first priority should be the extension to the sports/entertainment district.  This seems to be the most talked about skyway need.  It will do great things for connectivity.

It does parallel a streetcar line, so I would suggest only a few stops from BofA to the arena.  Perhaps a Hyatt/Landing stop, a shipyards area stop, entrance to the baseball field and then the final parking garage stop by the expressway.  If people want shorter distances inbetween, they should use the streetcar line.

Now picture this.  Tear down the old courthouse and insert a huge convention center with a glass indoor skyway stop and a cafe and coffee shop sticking out over the street.  The picture in my mind is pretty cool...and not easy to put into words.  I'd be happy to share with any developers out there 

For now I'd not continue the skyway to Jackson Square.  See what actually happens there first.

There was also an idea of extending to Shands through Springfield.  I agree that this would duplicate rail.  However I think connecting Springfield with skyway is important.  I would suggest extending the skyway north from its current end at FCCJ up and along main street.  Even adding a mile along main would help connect Springfield to the core.  1 or 2 stops at most.  I can picture some dense developments along main street as the area continues its revitalization.  I think living in a traditional neighborhood like Springfield but enjoying a 5-10 minute skyway trip into downtown would be a huge draw for business and residential growth.

Finally, as far as skyway and Riverside.  I think right now, two stops.  Brooklyn Park, if it ever happens and then the Financial towers.  There is a huge proposed project (can't remember the name) across from St. Joe Co.  This project along with BCBS, Fidelity, EverBank, Dupont, St.Joe and others will employ hundreds of potential skyway riders.  Imagine being able to live in a beautiful Springfield home or a southbank condo and take the skyway to work at BCBS or Dupont every day.  This in itself might help get all of the companies over there to chip in some cash to get their skyway stop.  If the skyway connects to more residential it would be a huge recruitment draw for them in my opinion.

I think these are enough ideas for now.  Hope this helps, Ock.

[Ocklawaha]

Interesting PM came in from one of the contractors on this little monorail system. Seems we have a "time capsule" within the Skyway, and they DON'T want it opened too soon. So the gist was, PLEASE - PLEASE - finish the job.

The man was very strong on the idea of going to the stadium and one station EAST of it. Like myself, he thinks the combination of SKYWAY, 2 ARTERIAL BRIDGES, and UNLIMITED PARKING would equal heavy ridership. It could release all of the downtown garages to private sector development. It would also bracket downtown with Union Station on one side and a multi-modal connection station down by the Stadium/Randolph district. Consider too that this area is the only one that would allow for a design that includes, WATER TAXI - SKYWAY - STREETCAR - BRT - CITY BUS/SHUTTLES.

Wouldn't that blow away the TV commentators next time we host "the big game".

OCKLAWAHA

[Charles Hunter]

Rather than derail (heh) the TOD thread, I'll put this here, in response to Ock's comment the Skyway should go OVER I-95.

Ock, if the Skyway were to go over I-95 from the existing Kings Ave. station, what would the slope be? could the skyway cars climb that grade? and would the passengers be able to stand up? (remember, most of the skyway passengers stand - only a couple seats per car.)

Or, alternatively, how far away from I-95 would the track have to start going up, to maintain a reasonable slope?

On the other side, I don't think there is any way (without a spiral ramp) it could get back down to ground level by the parking garage / hotel site.

On this link, the existing Kings Ave. station is near the street name label "Onyx", the garage/hotel is just below the US 1 sign, south of I-95

http://local.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=30.314321,-81.652772&spn=0.008614,0.014849&t=h&z=16

[Ocklawaha]

Charles, this is a spot that I think we all find ourselves in...boxed by previous bad decisions? I havent a cut-away or elevations of both the Skyway and Station sites, distances etc. It could probably handle 12% or so, I'm not sure what the Acosta is...Do You? LRT can handle 12% + (+ IN SOME CASES). Don't know if the state plans to lower the freeway there but one doubts it with Hendricks and Kings under it. Even if it went to grade East of King, we probably couldn't gain 5 feet for the Skyway.

It's frustrating, because I REALLY think this is one of the best ways to put our City in the front of the minds of visitors pouring through every hour.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

It may not be feasible to get the skyway up and over I-95.  Its much easier to take it under.

[Ocklawaha]

True, that's why I'd like to see a study, before the roads are lifted for the newest round of expansion and repair. I just want the point made that if it EVER gets near 95 or 10 it should go over where possible.

There is perhaps no better transit/garage advertising then to be stuck creeping along over the Southbank overpasses one car length at a time, then see this flying train sail effortlessly over the roadway!

OCKLAWAHA

[jaxphotocat]

I can not tell you how it warms my heart to hear that there are people in the community who recognize that this city is in dire need of transportation that does not add traffic to the roads.

I do some travel and have used the systems in Washington D.C., Atlanta, New York City, London, Las Vegas and Bangkok and in very case I was impressed with how much it added to quality of life in those places.

Las Vegas has a short rail line that is far from perfect and not the cheapest thing but it once made my trip to a convention much easier.  The rail system run along the "strip" and has a stop at the front doorstep of the convention center.

The subway in New York City and the "tube" in London worked great on trips once, helping avoid hefty cab costs. 

Washington D.C., and Atlanta had it where I was able to avoid horrible traffic making for much better visits.

In Bangkok, for about equal to $14.50 US, I got a pass for the rail and it allowed me to cover a good bit of distance in a very short amount of time.  It was good for 20 uses which I used on about 7 to 9 different days and still had a few uses left on the card and gave it to someone on the way out of hotel as I headed to the airport to start my journey back home.

I just hope this city will start to make its way toward the beaches and mandarin.

My 2 cents.

Jaxphotocat

[Coolyfett]

BTW, yet another vendor called me and said 10-20 million a mile for the Skyway extension, MAX, turnkey. Of course they built for Disney and theme parks and JTA deals with transit firms... sad to say but Disney as a transit company trumps them all in ridership, so why not look at those vendors?
OCKLAWAHA

You mean have Disney extend the Skyway??  I guess that would be ok, they are right down the street from Jax. Is that the vendor you speak of?

[Coolyfett]

In these tight budget years a dense neighborhood a mile from downtown would be an easy sell for transit.

Yep neighborhoods like Riverside, Springfield & San Marco! The skyways needs to got those neighborhoods. I could understand contesting it if I said Dunn Ave, 103rd & Baymeadows...but Riverside, San Marco & Springfield seem so easy to do. People forget how BIG Jacksonville actually is and how close those neighborhood are to the existing line.

[ProjectMaximus]

He's talking about the vendors who built for Disney and other theme parks. And these vendors are unfortunately not actual transit companies like the JTA would naturally prefer.

BTW, yet another vendor called me and said 10-20 million a mile for the Skyway extension, MAX, turnkey. Of course they built for Disney and theme parks and JTA deals with transit firms... sad to say but Disney as a transit company trumps them all in ridership, so why not look at those vendors?
OCKLAWAHA

You mean have Disney extend the Skyway??  I guess that would be ok, they are right down the street from Jax. Is that the vendor you speak of?

[Coolyfett]

Do we really want the skyway's elevated concrete beams running directly in front of the historic buildings on Bay, between Main & Liberty?  If we can get a way with an at-grade streetcar line serving the area, it seems like that option should be explored more.

Man Hell yea!! I don't care if its historic...isn't the Convention Center historic? What about the St James Building? Or Hemming Plaza. From the Central Station to Hemming Plaza it passes right by historic buildings when it makes that bend. Why must streetcars be only in so called historic sections? So the Florida Theater shouldn't get a station near it because it is old? I love historic places as much as the next guy just me, I use to check out books and go find these place at night, but to say the Skyway Train shouldn't go near them lake I don't agree with. Now I not saying go down Walnut or Hubbard or Post or College....but at least go to 8th & Main and the corner of Post & Park next to that pond. That is a perfect location IMO...they can either end it there.

[Coolyfett]

I would not object to this.  As long as we had regional lines feeding riders into the skyway first.  As far as I'm concerned, its going to struggle to attract riders, until we have regional rail and bus lines feeding it, regardless of where the short extensions are located.

I agree with feeding the system with regional tracks...but struggling to attract riders? 5 Points to Springfield & 5 Points to San Marco Square would have no trouble...especially on the weekends! Now I don't know about Springfield to San Marco Square what the interest level there is, but the first 2 connectors would find riders quick.

[Ocklawaha]

He's talking about the vendors who built for Disney and other theme parks. And these vendors are unfortunately not actual transit companies like the JTA would naturally prefer.

This is correct, however these companies are involved in much more then Disney, they also are currently building a mini-metro in Mexico. They certainly have the ability and track record, if the $$ and product is right, we should invite them to bid.

OCKLAWAHA

[Coolyfett]

It may not be feasible to get the skyway up and over I-95.  Its much easier to take it under.

I agree...Ock I see what you saying, but I had the same questions Charles had about the slope the train would climb. But I understand wanting the train to be seen by cars from the expressway.