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[jlmann]

hallo

[aldermanparklover]

Curious, MJ- what would you make of such a hypothetical scenario?

We did. If a government program is on the books and is advantageous and available for me to use (that is not straight up welfare), I'm using it with no guilt even if I ultimately want it gone. Once the government gets involved, it changes the marketplace artificially and puts a person who is qualified but refuses to use those programs at more of a disadvantage than if the program never existed.

In our case after failing to close on 4 contracts through no fault of our own while living out of a hotel AND paying for an out of state condo we burned through our home buying money, we were forced to use Duval's DPA (down payment assistance) where the county puts up $15k over 5 years and we are locked into a (much) higher rate @4.5% for at least that 5 years - then we can refi (technically is a loan within a loan because after the 5 years is up, we'll have paid about $22k in the additional interest from that rate for that $15k they put up!!! ain't nothing in life free) - the only way we could use that program is by going FHA

The first house we were under contract with was being sold by HUD - you could argue that's also taking advantage of a government program

The house we did buy, the (first) FHA appraisal came in $12k LESS than our agreed upon price and the seller dropped the price to make the sale - you could (try to) argue that's a government benefit too

But you might as well be asking if someone who hates government spending + entitlements is a hypocrite because they take deductions on their taxes? Or if someone advocates smaller government, should they call on police or fire in an emergency? All of which are ridiculous arguments.

[Gunnar]

Isn't the problem these persons usually have with government spending + entitlements if it is for others ?

[aldermanparklover]

Isn't the problem these persons usually have with government spending + entitlements if it is for others ?

Nope, I want it all gone and I also want the regulations reduced which would have made home buying much easier and cheaper instead of the disaster we got.

[Josh]

https://www.good.is/articles/half-of-americans-getting-government-aid-swear-they-ve-never-used-government-programs

[aldermanparklover]

I also want the regulations reduced which would have made home buying much easier and cheaper instead of the disaster we got.

completely false.

you would not have been able to purchase a home AT ALL without the government being involved in the marketplace.

there is no private lender who would've even looked at your application beyond your employment status.  Do you understand that?

The private mortgage market would NEVER issue you a loan.

wrong. in a sparse regulated but well regulated free system, if a need for out of state home purchases arose, some private entity could capitalize on it. And I'm even talking about removing the back end penalties, regulations and insurance the lenders get from the government too.

the price of housing will come down. investment qualifications would rise which would keep the market stable, the cost of owning a home would lower, the availability of capital would increase to qualified people, etc.

[aldermanparklover]

But you might as well be asking if someone who hates government spending + entitlements is a hypocrite because they take deductions on their taxes? Or if someone advocates smaller government, should they call on police or fire in an emergency? All of which are ridiculous arguments.

It's not ridiculous in the slightest.

The simple fact is that you do believe in entitlements.  You just take issue with what they are and who gets them.

And that's my point.  You espouse a world view that assumes authority over who is a deserving benefit recipient and who isn't.

The problem is that you don't see that you're firmly in the camp of undeserving recipient and you need to pipe down

I live in the system I live in - I were born into it, I am familiar with it, I make decisions in my life based on it. That doesn't mean I have no right wanting it changed because I'm a product of it.

The only people "pure" enough for your argument are hermits, alone in the woods living off the land and even then you'd argue, I suspect, that they are only able to live off the land because of the EPA so they too benefit from government.

The (federal) government should stick to its duty to provide for the GENERAL welfare of the people and to REGULATE commerce - not create commerce, not pick winners and def not go into business for itself

[aldermanparklover]

Thanks APL.  I conceived this thread to bait you into talking about this subject because I knew it would reveal how completely ignorant, incorrect and hypocritical you are on the topic, and expected you'd cower on to start another riveting thread once you realized you were in a bit over your head. 

Given the vagaries of modern life being able to see something so quickly and clearly come to fruition was a rare joy. 
Glad to have you back.

#1. I'm not telling you which bank we went through but our loan will ultimately be service by US Bank who is the only bank that is authorized, by the government, to service HHF-DPA loans.
#2. a. first house was in san marco and was missing HVAC which wasn't a $$$ problem at that time for us but the septic wasn't to code. the mortgage broker required my S/O to provide proof she had transferred work to JAX which was the start of her living in a hotel and working in Jax. then the deal fell through on account of the septic and thus were forced to move forward with buying a house because she was already down here...
b. The second house being HUD meant we had to pay all closing costs and they assumed no responsibility or would fix anything wrong with the house - we won the contract through auction. We put power on for inspections and the HVAC was dead - too old to repair because the government only allows legit HVAC companies to work on units no older than 2 years; we had to replace the whole system which we didn't have in our budget. we looked into buying with the hvac not working but if an appraiser puts it in their report "pending repair", then the unit would have to be replaced before we could close - we couldn't add the cost of the HVAC to the price of the house because of regulations put in place after the housing bubble. We looked into converting from conventional to 203k renovation but then we'd have to follow FHA standards which then would require us to hire a contractor to put a new roof on, remove the sun room which is no longer to code, bring the electric up to code, fix all the soft spots in the floor, etc = $35k (a lot of that work I wanted to do myself but once you go 203k, a licensed contractor and subs have to)
c. the third house, which was my fav, was on the westside but right before inspection the seller admitted they "forgot" to mention knob and tube wiring on the second floor - we couldn't get homeowners insurance because of regulations put in place about 2008. there was also a question about whether the septic was up to code but we converted the loan to 203k renovation and a week before close, the title company found the owner had outstanding liens which meant they had to be satisfied when the house sold - she had no money and we weren't putting in the extra money to cover her. ( we were already paying ALL her closing costs!!!)
d. the fourth house was in westside and because it hadn't sat on the market long enough (180 days) from when the flipper bought it, we couldn't get funded. by this time we were working with a bank and going HHF-DBA because our savings were too low to safely buy a house.
e. fifth house is the one we bought - it took us 4.5 months and was a nightmare. we squeezed into the house with barely enough money to move our stuff out of storage in SC.

btw., there is a JAX regulation that prevents people from giving short term leases (less than 7 months) without a YUGE tax penalty so we weren't able to move into a home here while trying to close - we had to live in a 300ft sq hotel room, with cat and put our possessions in storage in SC. 

[strider]

TO ADL, so basically, most of the houses you lost due to government regulations were due to regulations that actually protected you or that had issues that made it not a good deal?  Some of what you said stopped you or you had to do seems not accurate, legally speaking - though you certainly could have been told incorrectly.  That JAX law is a state tax law and it is not that bad - you can certainly find short term rentals (apartments) that would have been probably about the same or less than that motel room. 

[aldermanparklover]

TO ADL, so basically, most of the houses you lost due to government regulations were due to regulations that actually protected you or that had issues that made it not a good deal?  Some of what you said stopped you or you had to do seems not accurate, legally speaking - though you certainly could have been told incorrectly.  That JAX law is a state tax law and it is not that bad - you can certainly find short term rentals (apartments) that would have been probably about the same or less than that motel room.

How were those regulations protecting me? I'm able to do all the work needed to bring them up to date myself - there still are some real men who are self sufficient in the world. What the government does is create update standards that force the price of houses UP, which benefits them because it increases revenues and home prices, which doesn't benefit me the person paying for it all.

I don't know why that house was owned by HUD - the owner was deceased and they certainly didn't build it as it's older than the HUD agency itself. And the deal itself was amazing - for the price we went under contract with, we had at least ~$70k in equity due to its location (Clifton) and size - it was just a little run down from the previous owner who the neighbors said suffered depression. 5454 Grove Ave, 32211 - nothing I didn't feel comfortable fixing myself.

I were told the hotel tax thing was a Jax thing but ok, so the state of FL made it practically impossible to find something short term to affordably rent - trust me, after the first month in a hotel (and still paying for our condo in SC) we tried hard because we had no clue how long it was going to take to find a house and close.

[aldermanparklover]

That JAX law is a state tax law and it is not that bad - you can certainly find short term rentals (apartments) that would have been probably about the same or less than that motel room.

Exactly.  I'd bet good money the reason landlords told him about the YUGE tax was because they ran a credit check and APL is unemployed.

Damn government!!

are you even a real human being because you don't sound like one ... our credit is fine. my not having an employer is not a problem - we couldn't find any short term rentals that were "affordable" - they were available but really expensive and unlike libs that have no concept of the value of money, we weren't interested in pissing our money away on a "hope". after experiencing sure things falling through at the last minute, we had no clue if we were going to be able to buy a house even though we were doing everything right.

by June, my S/O was talking about just signing a lease but thankfully I talked into staying the course. I knew with Trump in office, the rates would skyrocket because the fed works for the NWO, not the American citizen. Looks like I'm being proven right..

[aldermanparklover]

I don't piss away money on hope. I'm gainfully employed and I invest my capital.  I'm what you might call a job creator I suppose. 

Rates have gone up but certainly haven't skyrocketed. The reason they've gone up is that Janet yellen raised rates in December. A decision that was well known prior to trumps election. They've continued to rise because the fed is expected to raise rates 3ish times this year a decision on which trump had no impact.

The only trump effect on rates has been caused by the market believing trump may cause inflation by spending a bunch of money without corresponding cuts.  Huh counter cyclical spending. I've heard that somewhere before. Oh yeah that Keynes guy who you and your boys hate, but has been proven correct.

Read something besides breitbart. And realize your budget issues are because the world is leaving you behind. Go update your IT skills at community college and get to work and quit lecturing people on things you know nothing of and don't start a podcast or whatever. And definitely don't insult my humanity when I'm making a punching bag of  a guy who literally suggests 'gay camps' as a real solution. You'll incite no remorse here

funding gay rights wine nights isn't job creation nor investing ... and I would be very curious to know what it is exactly you do, if anything at all. am willing to bet you have soft hands and like to peel some off the top when you move money from one person's account to another.

But yeaaaaaaah ... world is leaving me behind - never heard that before. Says the person who thought their candidate was a "lock" because there just aren't enough of ppl like me left in the country. and she even CHEATED and lost ... whaaaaaa

Don't believe everything those lib groups tell you on campus. I used to work for a PIRG in my younger years managing starry eyed students from BU, Harvard and MIT begging for donations door to door for liberal causes and the "guests" they would invite in to speak used to talk some crazy shiz like periodontal disease was a made up thing to make money or AIDS was created by the government to wipe out blacks and gays and they had a secret cure but wanted people to pay for experimental drugs instead.

Whaaaaaaa!!!!

[remc86007]

with cat

At least we have one thing in common.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

funding gay rights wine nights isn't job creation nor investing ... and I would be very curious to know what it is exactly you do, if anything at all. am willing to bet you have soft hands and like to peel some off the top when you move money from one person's account to another.

But yeaaaaaaah ... world is leaving me behind - never heard that before. Says the person who thought their candidate was a "lock" because there just aren't enough of ppl like me left in the country. and she even CHEATED and lost ... whaaaaaa

Don't believe everything those lib groups tell you on campus. I used to work for a PIRG in my younger years managing starry eyed students from BU, Harvard and MIT begging for donations door to door for liberal causes and the "guests" they would invite in to speak used to talk some crazy shiz like periodontal disease was a made up thing to make money or AIDS was created by the government to wipe out blacks and gays and they had a secret cure but wanted people to pay for experimental drugs instead.

Whaaaaaaa!!!!

Pre 90s but hey...  no one's perfect.

https://www.youtube.com/v/NBv6AsoCfLI?

[strider]

TO ADL, so basically, most of the houses you lost due to government regulations were due to regulations that actually protected you or that had issues that made it not a good deal?  Some of what you said stopped you or you had to do seems not accurate, legally speaking - though you certainly could have been told incorrectly.  That JAX law is a state tax law and it is not that bad - you can certainly find short term rentals (apartments) that would have been probably about the same or less than that motel room.

How were those regulations protecting me? I'm able to do all the work needed to bring them up to date myself - there still are some real men who are self sufficient in the world. What the government does is create update standards that force the price of houses UP, which benefits them because it increases revenues and home prices, which doesn't benefit me the person paying for it all.

I don't know why that house was owned by HUD - the owner was deceased and they certainly didn't build it as it's older than the HUD agency itself. And the deal itself was amazing - for the price we went under contract with, we had at least ~$70k in equity due to its location (Clifton) and size - it was just a little run down from the previous owner who the neighbors said suffered depression. 5454 Grove Ave, 32211 - nothing I didn't feel comfortable fixing myself.

I were told the hotel tax thing was a Jax thing but ok, so the state of FL made it practically impossible to find something short term to affordably rent - trust me, after the first month in a hotel (and still paying for our condo in SC) we tried hard because we had no clue how long it was going to take to find a house and close.

As a contractor, I have seen too often the results of the do it yourself-er on many houses.  There is a reason people are licensed and insured to do that work.  Some homeowners are actually better at some things than the average contractor but very few are better at everything needed.  So, to protector YOU, the home buyer, they restrict what you can do to the house yourself. Real men, by the way, know and admit their limitations and use the pro's when truly needed and do so without complaint.  But whatever.

The fact that you failed to purchase the house in questions tells me you truly did not qualify for some reason. The addition work required took it above your limits perhaps? 

Please remember that the motel you stayed at pays the same taxes a short term rental would be required to pay.  It appears the issue was your personal budget or perhaps financial frugality that stopped you, not the tax.

After all the Pro-Trump, anti liberal propaganda you have been spouting, I'm surprised that you did not recognize the additional regulations in the constrcutio0n industry were geared towards big business rather than the small homeowner and that they help keep American Jobs.