Baltimore commits $660M to project

[spuwho]

Baltimore city council commited $660M of public financing to support a $5.5 Billion urban renewal project.

   http://mobile.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSKCN11Q1XK   

Is the Port Covington project similar to the Shipyards?

They are making a 20 year commitment to Sagamore to turn the urban district around.

Can Jacksonville make the same commitment?

[thelakelander]

Port Covington is more like The District.

[Adam White]

Suddenly I'm not feeling so sorry for those Baltimore guys...

[spuwho]

I dont think Rummell was putting $5.5B into the District.

COJ wasnt selling any bonds to finance the infrastructure either.

Seems like much larger scope than the District, yes?

[KenFSU]

^$800 million, for the District.

[thelakelander]

I dont think Rummell was putting $5.5B into the District.

COJ wasnt selling any bonds to finance the infrastructure either.

Seems like much larger scope than the District, yes?

We don't have anything the scale of what's mushrooming in the heart of Baltimore. The District would be the closest. The Shipyards isn't a real proposal at this point and it's only 40 acres or so. In terms of public money being spent, the only plus billion dollar project we're trying to pull off is the outer beltway...or whatever it's being called these days.

[tufsu1]

Like Detroit, Baltimore has a homegrown guy bringing lots of money into the city core.  The founder of Under Armour has decided to "protect this house."  Jacksonville simply doesn't have that yet...and before someone brings up Khan, let me clearly state there is no comparison.

[spuwho]

Like Detroit, Baltimore has a homegrown guy bringing lots of money into the city core.  The founder of Under Armour has decided to "protect this house."  Jacksonville simply doesn't have that yet...and before someone brings up Khan, let me clearly state there is no comparison.

Ed Ball?

[FRANTZ46]

Don't let that Baltimore incident fools you. I can tell you from my experience after living in MD and the Washington area for more than 20 years, Maryland is still one of the top 5 richest States in the country by(GDP). Virginia also is quiet Rich. MARYLAND a small State compares to Florida but with lots of money , lots of jobs and tech jobs. But (unfortunately those bums living in Baltimore were not interesting to work for a living. They were only interesting in destroying the city like they did in Detroit). Also Maryland has 2 NFL teams playing in the States Baltimore Ravens and the Redskins. Also they have professional Hockey team, Baseball and NBA more than 6 casinos including the New $1.5 billions MGM that schedule to open in 6 months. 
Maryland and Virginia  are the place to be for Anybody who wants to start a new life, who want to make some descent money. Although  the cost of living is high, but at least if you manage well your money you should be fine 

[spuwho]

Like Detroit, Baltimore has a homegrown guy bringing lots of money into the city core.  The founder of Under Armour has decided to "protect this house."  Jacksonville simply doesn't have that yet...and before someone brings up Khan, let me clearly state there is no comparison.

Ed Ball?

It really isn't a comparison.  Ed Ball was never a person who spent on the actual town. Every dime he spent was either to enrich his own position, or to exert power.  More like Khan than either of the two TUFSU is referring to.

Sorry Stephen, I was being a bit sarcastic and left off that winky smiley.

I cant recall if Jacksonville has ever had its own Henry Flagler in its history.

[Captain Zissou]

Wayne and Delores have been heros of the local arts and non-profit scenes.  Delores took a crack at development, but her timing just wasn't quite right and I think that prevented further projects.

[thelakelander]

What UA is doing is a completely different animal. Here's a few images from our Baltimore trip a few months back:



They renovated a closed detergent plant into their headquarters. Each building name pays homage to the products once produced there.



What they've done with their headquarters would be like someone going into Talleyrand, retrofitting the Ford plant and opening the property up so Eastside residents could have access to the riverfront.


Even fuel storage tanks can become a canvas for artwork and murals.


Mixing industry with waterfront public space. Talk about desegregation of land uses. Now Locust Point residents can access and enjoy the Inner Harbor, despite having a waterfront dominated by industrial use.



Pretty cool design of a public space that also plays homage to the company's brand.



So even a passive space becomes one for active use because its design encourages physical activity.


On the other side of the harbor, the hometown company invests in a flagship retail operation. We haven't witnessed this type of stuff since the closing of May-Cohens and Furchgott's.

[spuwho]

Like Detroit, Baltimore has a homegrown guy bringing lots of money into the city core.  The founder of Under Armour has decided to "protect this house."  Jacksonville simply doesn't have that yet...and before someone brings up Khan, let me clearly state there is no comparison.

Ed Ball?

It really isn't a comparison.  Ed Ball was never a person who spent on the actual town. Every dime he spent was either to enrich his own position, or to exert power.  More like Khan than either of the two TUFSU is referring to.

Sorry Stephen, I was being a bit sarcastic and left off that winky smiley.

I cant recall if Jacksonville has ever had its own Henry Flagler in its history.

I suspected as much.

Ive been giving a lot of thought to the messiah technique of downtown redevelopment, and I don't like it much, lol.  Never did.

Its the problem with monarchies.  Eventually the king dies.

But as for your list of Flagler types, here is a list:

Abraham Lincoln Lewis, Alfred Dupont, William Astor, Paran Moody, Francis Fatio L'Engle. (and the L'Engle family in general) Ira Koger, and a few others.  There have been several great men throughout the course of our history.  The Stocktons would qualify as well.  We will see what Preston Haskell and John Peyton do before they pass into history.

Where do the Skinners, Cesery's, Weavers, Davis' Family land.

I think just last week Dan Davis cut a check to Mayo Clinc Jacksonville for some $7 milllion for the just announced $150 million expansion.

[ProjectMaximus]

What UA is doing is a completely different animal. Here's a few images from our Baltimore trip a few months back

Pretty disappointed that I missed this portion of Baltimore and the trip.

[spuwho]

That is an interesting perspective.

Do you think in today's hyper-political environment, it is even possible for a family or wealthy local to contribute in a way as you describe?

I have seen small towns in other states turn down large "legacy" gifts because they were afraid the giver was going to want to much in return or want too much control after the fact.

Chicago's Montgomery Ward made the city sign a legal compact to keep Grant Park free of obstruction as part of his gift.  (Though they have been pushing it to the limit as of late).  Some donors today get offended when a local municipality treats a legacy gift as a legal arrangement. Many cities don't like the strings attached to the gift.

Before the descendants of the McCormick Family (invented the reaper) would donate their land to a local forest preserve, they made the government entity sign a legal agreement that the land would never, ever, be sold or built upon unless it was for public use.  It took many years to get that down. The McCormicks had seen other wealthy families land donations turned into something they had never anticipated and were going to hold the government accountable.

So what if one of the families of Jax set up a foundation for Hogan's Creek? It would pay to maintain the Klutho designs and the waterway. Would that be legacy?

What if Shad Khan buys the Shipyards, pays to clean it up, builds a multi-purpose park? Does that pass the legacy litmus test?

If Peter Rummell pays for a $25M Jacksonville Historical Center for the JHS, where people can see the local history, is that legacy?