Jacksonville Landing project dead

[thelakelander]

Thoughts?

Now, talk of redeveloping the Landing has died down and any city involvement or money for a Landing makeover is nonexistent as a legal battle simmers.

"We're operating the way it is," said Toney Sleiman, co-owner of the Landing. "It will stay that way until there's money to develop it.

With all that foot traffic, Sleiman has an if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it philosophy.

"We don't really have anything in the way of future redevelopment plans," Sleiman said.

He added his company has 45 years remaining on the lease from the city which technically owns the 6 acres of land and Sleiman is prepared to maintain operations there for every one of those years.

The lawsuit in particular caused the city to halt any further consideration of city money being used for Landing redevelopment until the legal flap is resolved.

That's fine with Landing General Manager Janice Lowe. She said as debate brewed for over a year on the future of the Landing, there was an air of uncertainty that slowed business and hampered efforts to fill storefronts with new tenants.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2016-06-21/story/collaboration-city-outs-jacksonville-landing-seeks-revitalize-business

[spuwho]

It could be worse. At least he didnt blame Curry and the pension tax vote.

I say let him chase tenants instead of holding him hostage during due process.

[Kerry]

So the City should help build something better in Brooklyn (maybe on the T-U site) and force the Landing owners to compete for customers on their own dime.

[thelakelander]

^Reality is, the city can't help itself. It sure isn't subsidizing a retail center on the site of the TU when the one it has now isn't all peaches and cream. Since it will be here a while, it would be an improvement for the Landing to invest in a pressure washer, landscaping, a few buckets of paint and go after more local tenants.

[UNFurbanist]

^Isn't that the truth? I think with a $500,000- $1,000,000 investment you could actually do a lot with the space to bring it up to date and be attractive... Will Sleiman make that investment? No. Probably not. Although now with redevelopment off the table maybe he'll be more willing to look at those touch up options for the short to mid term. 

[Kerry]

My take from the article is that the owners thinks 14,000 people a day go there, so why fix it.  Of course, we know 14,000 a day don't go there.  The problem with The Landing can't be fixed with paint.  For starters, it was built backwards.  The whole thing was built as either a photo-op from Friendship Fountain or expecting everyone to arrive by boat.  It doesn't interact with the street at all.  Heck, coming down Laura Street "THE JACKSONVILLE LANDING" sign reads backwards.  Couple that with an interior hallway that should have been used as a maintenance access instead of a primary pedestrian entrance.  By that I mean, all of the store fronts should have faced either the street or center courtyard.  This would have allowed individual business to set their own hours, have window displays, and move merchandise out the sidewalk.  Malls don't work anymore, and I don't think mini-malls ever did.

[vicupstate]

I'm not sure which is a bigger testament to the city's ineptitude in terms of DT redevelopment, the Laura Trio or the Landing.

How many times has something been proposed only to go nowhere. It has happened so many times that the next time, it won't even be taken seriously. How long has the parking issue been on the burner only to never be resolved. How much of the city's resources have gone into trying to get the project off the ground, all for nothing?

The above questions can describe either project.
   

[thelakelander]

My take from the article is that the owners thinks 14,000 people a day go there, so why fix it.  Of course, we know 14,000 a day don't go there.

My take was that there is a lawsuit, and he's not going to do any of those grand redevelopment plans on land owned by the city without public money. The building was acquired for $5 million, so its not like they are losing money.

The problem with The Landing can't be fixed with paint.  For starters, it was built backwards.  The whole thing was built as either a photo-op from Friendship Fountain or expecting everyone to arrive by boat.  It doesn't interact with the street at all.  Heck, coming down Laura Street "THE JACKSONVILLE LANDING" sign reads backwards.  Couple that with an interior hallway that should have been used as a maintenance access instead of a primary pedestrian entrance.  By that I mean, all of the store fronts should have faced either the street or center courtyard.  This would have allowed individual business to set their own hours, have window displays, and move merchandise out the sidewalk.  Malls don't work anymore, and I don't think mini-malls ever did.

Bayside Marketplace - Miami

Count me in the population of the few who don't believe demolition and removing bridge ramps are the only way to fix its problems. Bayside Marketplace is pretty much the same thing in downtown Miami and its always been filled with stuff. The reality is festival marketplaces and malls don't work in cities with dead downtowns. So change the tenant mix. The waterfront dining spots tend to stay leased. However, the food court struggles. If I were Sleiman, I'd kill the food court and convert the space into a second floor restaurant or two, with views of the river. This idea isn't new and it's one he's considered before. Mavericks takes up 1/2 of the original food court space. As for the mall, consider the possibilities of something like a public market, change the tenant mix and make the idea of a "front porch" along Independent something a bit more permanent. Go for something a bit more authentic Jax, instead of a bunch of chains already spread all over town.

Milwaukee Public Market - Milwaukee




Ferry Building - San Francisco




Lexington Market - Baltimore




Union Market - Washington, DC

[thelakelander]

As for having too much space for retail, carve it up with alternative big box uses.....just like we do with older suburban malls.....


Imagination Station - Formerly Rouse' Portside Marketplace in Toledo, OH


Ripley's Believe It or Not - Baltimore Harborside Marketplace

Maybe fill the empty space up with fish tanks and call it an aquarium since there's a snowball's chance in hell of that actually happening....

[Downtown Osprey]

I believe it was Steve Williams who had proposed not tearing down the landing, rather, give it a major face lift and make it something that is exclusively a Jax thing. Meaning, local everything. Perhaps add some sort of craft beer joint (or two), a local restaurant, local seafood produce?

Give it some variety that appeals to not only locals, but people visiting. It's not rocket science.

[Tacachale]

Probably for the best right now. Even besides the legal kerfuffle, the city doesn't have $11 million to give to the Landing, especially without a top-notch plan.

[Lunican]

Don't forget about the Barnett Building, the Laura trio, Berkman 2, and the shipyards.

[Kerry]

If only the City had some kind of dedicated sales tax that raise funds for stuff like this instead of expanding roads that facilitate more tax-sucking sprawl....oh wait.

[Kerry]

Funny Bayside Marketplace in Miami was mentioned.

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/130509/story6.shtml

[thelakelander]

Funny Bayside Marketplace in Miami was mentioned.

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/130509/story6.shtml

^Great article. The last paragraph pretty much tells it all:

"The property is 26 years old," she said, "so we constantly need to evolve and regenerate and reinvent ourselves.

"We certainly are doing that as we speak," she added.

And Bayside, she said, is working closely with the city and Mr. Sarnoff to do so.

"We are trying to identify what we will do as far as bringing in new tenants and upgrading the neighborhood and the property," she said, "but nothing has been determined as of yet."

Bayside Marketplace was built in 1987 by the former Rouse Co. and is now managed and owned by Chicago-based General Growth Properties. It is, according to Ms. Weller, in the top 5% of General Growth Properties' holdings as far as the sales per square foot national norm.

Currently, 188 businesses operate within Bayside Marketplace, with another two stores coming this year and fewer than five retail slots, one of which is for a restaurant, available.

Sounds like the complete opposite of the Landing's situation despite the physical structure (turning itself away from downtown) and also being outdated.

What really stands out in this story is that they aren't tearing Bayside down. They are upgrading it after nearly 30 years of life. This is exactly what Sleiman should be doing with the Landing. Forget about waiting on city money to tear down bridge ramps and flatten the place out. Ultimately, that's not going to solve the larger issue of it being located in downtown Jax. Try reinventing instead. Btw, this article is an old one. Here's what they're adding to Bayside now:


http://skyrisemiami.com/

^Jax can get things started by cleaning the place up and getting creative with better utilizing much of the empty interior space.