5 Points intersection beacon

[SuzySpringfield]

The one at Prudential & San Marco (by MOCA) works well too... so not sure why people are saying they don't work and wouldn't fit in that intersection.

I believe you mean MOSH

[Adam White]

oy.

Look at the pic in that article.  And read it again just to absorb the clarity and specificity with which Officer Edwards addresses this issue.  It almost seems like he thought about his response, even.

There a 4 keep right signs.  Two of which face traffic on Margaret.  There is no asterisk or fine print.

See my comment earlier about this reminding me of arguing about climate change with hard core conservatives.  The facts have been laid out.  They seem pretty clear.

Not making a judgment about Mr. White beyond him sticking to his guns in the face of evidence contrary to his position, but what is about the conservative brain?  I pretty much stopped arguing politics as I did in my youth.  The brain that subscribes to that type of world view is literally hard-wired to ignore evidence that conflicts with their deeply held beliefs.  Hey Science! can you figure out how to reprogram this defect?  We could solve the worlds problems in an afternoon.

Good day sirs and maams,

I could do without the insults about my brain. And I know you're new here and all, but anyone who's spent any amount of time on this forum knows I'm not conservative.

There are a wealth of opinions on this 5 points issue - you have quoted one "source" which we have no way of knowing is the authority on the issue. As I said before (if you bothered to read it) - maybe the cop is right. Does that fit with the idea that my brain is hardwired a certain way? I admit I may have it wrong - but I have seen too much evidence to the contrary of your position to just accept that you're right on this and I (and many others) are wrong. But I could be wrong.

[Adam White]

Sorry to insult.  I was really just musing aloud about the similarities of frustrating conversations where I feel strongly the facts are clear despite the technically correct thing feeling a bit weird in the real world.  I see came off as way ruder than intended. 

I said I would leave, but wanted to apologize as I look forward to respectful debate here.

BUT!!

From the article:

"Here is an official account from Officer Thomas C. Edwards of the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office assigned to Zone 4:

"Basically, the Five Points intersection is an access-controlled roundabout. Southbound and eastbound Park Street have the right of way due to their sides of the intersection flashing yellow. Westbound Lomax Street and northbound and southbound Margaret Street have stop signs as well as flashing red lights on the control post.

With regard to right of way from those roadways, you should yield to the first car to arrive at the stop sign, or if unsure, to the vehicle to your right.

When proceeding into the intersection from any of the roadways, you should keep right of the control post as you travel through the intersection and as always should not enter the intersection if you will have to stop, causing your vehicle to block another vehicle's path within the intersection."

To be clear:  a thoughtful response on record in the TU from a lauded and respected JSO officer with decades of experience who is assigned to the area including 5 pts. is not just one "source" that carries the same weight as random people's opinions based on what they feel, or how much time spent in the neighborhood.  I would welcome a legitimate source that contradicts me beyond "ahh you just go straight.  that's what most people do."  That isn't a source.

I think it's an opinion and the use of the word "official" in that article was just journalism. I don't read this as an official statement by the JSO.

We're never going to agree on this, so I'm just going to bow out now. And it's bedtime anyway. Have a good night.

[marty904]

I've lived in Riverside for years now and frequent 5 Points quite regularly and drive though on an almost daily basis and I've never seen an accident happen at the beacon.

Yeah, I lived there for over 10 years and can't recall any accidents.

I don't agree with the roundabout idea, as the beacon doesn't really function as one. For example, you wouldn't drive around the beacon to travel across Park on Margaret.

Yes, you would drive around the beacon to go from Park to Margaret (if you were paying attention to the "keep right" sign). The legal traffic sign stating "keep right" would indicate that you should in fact, go around the beacon - if, you know, one was paying attention...

[marty904]

^exactly - you only keep to the right when traveling past the bollard.

lol so that would be the equivalent to if you approach a road that says "One Way", you only have to abide by that sign if you don't need to go that way... I guess now street signs and traffic control devices are up for "interpretation" for what suits the individual driver.

[marty904]

The one at Prudential & San Marco (by MOCA) works well too... so not sure why people are saying they don't work and wouldn't fit in that intersection.

I believe you mean MOSH

Yes, MOSH. Thanks for the correction

[Adam White]

The one at Prudential & San Marco (by MOCA) works well too... so not sure why people are saying they don't work and wouldn't fit in that intersection.

I believe you mean MOSH

Yes, MOSH. Thanks for the correction

So... is it a mini roundabout? I've not seen it.

[Kay]

The one at Prudential & San Marco (by MOCA) works well too... so not sure why people are saying they don't work and wouldn't fit in that intersection.

I believe you mean MOSH

Yes, MOSH. Thanks for the correction

Pedestrians do not use the crosswalks at this roundabout or the one at Laura St.  The new 5 Points intersection design is about making the pedestrians the priority, not the cars.  A roundabout would push the pedestrians quite a ways away from the intersection, making folks walk farther to get from one point to another.

[mtraininjax]

Its a new light rail discussion here. No one wants the change, no one wants a mini-roundabout, no one wants to change what is there.

How hard is it for drivers to see (3) stop signs and flashing lights? There are many more accidents elsewhere in the city for dumber purposes. The residents don't want to change it, the city does not want to change it, the merchants don't want to change it, so........why change it?

Leave it alone.

[Tacachale]

As both pedestrian and driving traffic continues to increase through Five Points, it's the city's responsibility to update the infrastructure. There's no easy way to do that at the intersection, hence the unique solution. Something similar happened at the intersection in San Marco; a lot of people doubted it at first, but it's much better and more pedestrian friendly than it was.

[Charles Hunter]

The one at Prudential & San Marco (by MOCA) works well too... so not sure why people are saying they don't work and wouldn't fit in that intersection.

I believe you mean MOSH

Yes, MOSH. Thanks for the correction

So... is it a mini roundabout? I've not seen it.

Some refer to it as a Stop-About, there are stop signs on the entrance roads, I stead of Yield signs.

[Adam White]

The one at Prudential & San Marco (by MOCA) works well too... so not sure why people are saying they don't work and wouldn't fit in that intersection.

I believe you mean MOSH

Yes, MOSH. Thanks for the correction

So... is it a mini roundabout? I've not seen it.

Some refer to it as a Stop-About, there are stop signs on the entrance roads, I stead of Yield signs.

I just looked that up on Google maps satellite view and it isn't what I was referring to. Looks like a regular roundabout to me.

[Charles Hunter]

Look in street view, there are stop signs where there shouldn't be.

[tufsu1]

No one wants the change, no one wants a mini-roundabout, no one wants to change what is there.

If that were true, there would not have been substantive discussion over the past few months....or a petition signed by many merchants last month.

Fact is, the most important thing to the merchants is keeping the beacon.  Until an agreement was reached the other day, it was not clear the beacon could stay with the configuration remaining mainly as it is. 

[Adam White]

Look in street view, there are stop signs where there shouldn't be.

Roundabouts can have stop signs or stop lights or whatever.

But I was referring to the fact that it looks like a regular - as opposed to mini - roundabout. I was told by another poster (when I said American drivers didn't know how to use mini roundabouts) that there was one at that location. That does not appear to be the case, as far as I can tell.