Breathing Life back into the Jacksonville Landing

[thelakelander]

Stephen, you're dead on about the market idea.  Even if they never opened the courtyard up to Laura Street, there's enough space facing Independent Drive, where this activity could be used to convert that area into a second front facing activity center.

[rjp2008]

Couple points...

The seafood/farmer's market idea is fantastic! That's the key right there.

The landing should be the "International and Local Grocer Hub" of Jacksonville. You should be able to shop for Fresh Maine Lobsters and Florida Sailfish, Local Organic Produce, Costa Rican fruits, Asian/Filipino grocery items Polish deli meats, French breads and pastries, etc, etc.

All those condos going up downtown? Those people are not going to shop at Winn Dixie! They'll want Whole Foods class or better niche stuff.

It's not a "Landing", it's a Launchpad!
The Landing should be a multi-modal transport hub also! Extend the Skyway a couple blocks down Hogan Street right into the Landing itself.

[vicupstate]

Stephen, you're dead on about the market idea.  Even if they never opened the courtyard up to Laura Street, there's enough space facing Independent Drive, where this activity could be used to convert that area into a second front facing activity center.

Exactly, just start out using space between the courtyard and Water Steet (indoors and out). Just use tables and produce containers, nothing that would require a building permit.  Do it every Saturday for a couple of months and see if it builds steam, before doing anything an expensive as altering the building.     

Put live music on the stage too. Lots of produce, seafood and fresh bread, etc. would make a much better impression that papered over empty retail spaces.   

[Ocklawaha]

A mix of food, entertainment, and guy gadgets would be interesting. HELLO, are men no longer a market for anyone? When is the last time you got dragged from store to store to look at the pink bra, then the blue one, then the red one, then...

HELP!

If someone would trick out the corners with computers, games, hobbies, sports, electronics...We would all be dragging the ladies down the the landing! Moreover, we could wine and dine, and even THEY could shop.
Then just add STREETCAR and mix. Some unknown guy did this back about 1968 in Long Beach California, by buying an old "Tourist Court Motel", then then leased each cottage to a different "hobby"... Don't know if he is still there, but MY GOD, he had the busiest place in Southern California for years and years.

Ocklawaha

[blizz01]

They do it in San Francisco too on the weekends & it's awesome & enviable.  Does Tony Sleiman read this???  The space is there.  What a no brainer.  Art, wine, food, music........

[tpot]

I agree!  fantastic ideas here.  Does anyone have his email address so we could send him this string. 

After they build this garage I wonder what the next excuse will be as to why the landing still suks!!!!

[Eazy E]

If you had out of town visitors staying with you, would you take them to SJTC or the Landing?         

I wouldn't take them to either unless I hated them and wanted to ruin their visit.

[BridgeTroll]

I recently had visitors from San Jose and Vegas... both had a great time at Twisted Martini, Mavericks(my first time), people watching in the courtyard.  It is a pretty intersting mix of humanity on Friday and Saturday nights...

[copperfiend]

I was in the Landing courtyard a few months ago on a Friday afternoon. It was an interesting mix of guys in jean shorts and sleeveless shirts.

[KenFSU]

If you had out of town visitors staying with you, would you take them to SJTC or the Landing?         

I wouldn't take them to either unless I hated them and wanted to ruin their visit.

The Town Center would ruin their visit?

With all due respect, I really dislike this sort of sentiment. The SJTC is absolutely nothing but a positive for the city of Jacksonville. It's the absolute premier shopping destination between Orlando and Atlanta full of stores that Jacksonville is a good decade away from even DREAMING of having in the core. Sucks, but it's the truth of the matter. Call it a glorified strip mall or whatever, but there's just no denying that it has been a massive success and is a wonderful thing for the suburbanites who, realistically, don't want to or will never want to jump on the highway and drive the 20, 30 or 40 mile round trip downtown might be for them.

Downtown's day will come, and I'm as excited as anyone about that, but economic growth and development elsewhere in the city is only going to bring more people to Jacksonville who will in turn spend more money. If a market this small can support an NFL team for over a decade, surely it can support a handful of commercial/entertainment districts in both the burbs and the urbs.

[77danj7]

As stated a few times already Stephen's idea about a market would be amazing!  As I have lived in Springfield for coming up on five years now I can clearly see how beneficial this would be to all of us as well as all of the "newcomers" who are moving into the core.
I know that my family for one would be frequenting the landing even more often than we do now.

[Steve]

The parking thing is a little bit of an issue - national chains require it, and for a suburbanite, parking is difficult (notice I didn't say 'not available').  We are competing against St Johns Town Center, which has a sea of free parking.  The landing will never have that.

As far as the signage thing, that was fixed in 2002 or 2003, but it took Starbucks putting a protruding siign on their Forsyth and Main property to wake everyone up that they were allowed (this was related no only to hard headedness in Public Works, but also sign contractors misleading retailers as far as what is required).

St John's Town Center has been a success because of the retailers entering the market, not because of St Johns Town Center itself.  Remember, the expansion of Regency Square in the 80's was one of the final death knell's in downtown retail.  Now, the Dillard's is turing into a clearance center.  See what 20 years can do.  I think it would be VERY interesting to see SJTC in 20 years.

To me one of the main issues is the construction - the most valuable space is where the food courts and their seating is.  Think about this - the most valuable space in the building is where $4 lunches are sold, and remember, the seating area is not leasable (only the little closets where the food is sold at).  This we can't blame Sleiman for.

Now, until the market improves, there won't be a lot of action.  The Peyton Administration is solely to blame for this, for being very poor at negotiations.  The dragged this thing on SO long that they missed the market (did they really think the market was going to stay like that)?

Now, there are some thing they can do to help - first, start with the list in the article, particularly the look and feel of the place.  Second, come up with some sort of parking thing - even if people have to pay short term, partner with a garage to put a big sign on it (the 9 story one that is empty after 5 is a good start).  That wouldn't be ideal, but it would take the parking situation from an F to a C

[Doctor_K]

St John's Town Center has been a success because of the retailers entering the market, not because of St Johns Town Center itself.  Remember, the expansion of Regency Square in the 80's was one of the final death knell's in downtown retail.  Now, the Dillard's is turing into a clearance center.  See what 20 years can do.  I think it would be VERY interesting to see SJTC in 20 years.

Not that I'm outright disagreeing here, but wouldn't the SJTC of 20 years hence and Regency Square of today kind of be an apples-to-oranges comparison? 

Since newer ways of thinking and planning like smart growth and new urbanism are more overt of an issue now than they were in the 80s (if they even existed as fleshed-out in the 80s as they are now?), even if Jax remains slow to adapt to such thinking, is it possible that the SJTC could remain as viable a commercial entity then as it seems to be now?

That, coupled with the trend of 'urban' villages/'town centers' (we've all hashed the validity of the term in other threads, but I use it here loosely anyway) sprouting up all over the place (ok - the Southside), and nothing but mid-density residential going up as well? 

Normally I'd tend to agree with you, in theory, about the "let's see what such-and-such looks like in 20 years" argument; but at the same time, a lot can happen between now and then that could make the SJTC (and let's not overlook the successes in their own rights of others like Oak Leaf, River City Marketplace, and however many others there are now, too) a different animal from the Regency comparison.

Or am I just hoping for too much and talking out of my arse?

[thelakelander]

Imo, SJTC will ultimately be as successful as the neighborhood around it.  All the land planning in the world won't help if the surrounding area goes down the tubes or doesn't remain the popular place to be in Jacksonville.  My pick is that some significant redevelopment and a change in tenant mix will happen eventually, because the housing being constructed around the center is pretty substandard and the infrastructure in that general area is poorly laid out.

[Doctor_K]

Awesome!  Would you be able to post it for all?