Jesse Helms Dead.

[Driven1]

btw, for the record...while Helms was certainly no Democratic Senator Robert Byrd (Helms was never elected Exalted Cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan as Byrd was), I do believe that he - like much of black and white America - had overt racist tendencies in the 60s.  I can't vouch for Senator Byrd, but I do think - from reading the interview that RG posted - that Helms had long since repented from those thoughts and actions.

[vicupstate]

Helms, unlike Thurmond and George Wallace, never had any coming to terms with the incendiary racial appeals of his early radio broadcasts, and was outspoken in his condemnation of homosexuals, whom he called “weak, morally sick wretches.” But modernity seemed to have a way of asserting itself in his story. The image that will always be identified with Helms is that of the white hands crumpling a job rejection slip in the famous ad he used in his 1990 race against Harvey Gantt.

Years later, the creator of that ad, Arthur Finkelstein, was revealed to be a gay man who was raising a child with his partner in New York.

Priceless. 


http://www.southernpoliticalreport.com/storylink_76_463.aspx

Robert Byrd, age 91, was in the KKK when he was in his 20's, and he renounced the organization decades ago, before ever holding office. Hardly comparable. 

That 1990 ad was injected in the senate race because he was losing ground to Gant at that time.

[Driven1]

that is ironic.  but, it begs a few other questions.

so...was Arthur Finkelstein "racist" also by designing the ad?  interesting question.  or was he just "morally sick" by accepting work with which he morally disagreed with?  or perhaps the ad wasn't wrong at all and was just jumped on by the left as "racist" as so often happens at election time.  btw, Mr. Helms was my senior senator until 1999.

[Driven1]

proud as puddin!! 

[RiversideGator]

Helms, unlike Thurmond and George Wallace, never had any coming to terms with the incendiary racial appeals of his early radio broadcasts, and was outspoken in his condemnation of homosexuals, whom he called “weak, morally sick wretches.” But modernity seemed to have a way of asserting itself in his story. The image that will always be identified with Helms is that of the white hands crumpling a job rejection slip in the famous ad he used in his 1990 race against Harvey Gantt.

Years later, the creator of that ad, Arthur Finkelstein, was revealed to be a gay man who was raising a child with his partner in New York.

Priceless. 


http://www.southernpoliticalreport.com/storylink_76_463.aspx

Robert Byrd, age 91, was in the KKK when he was in his 20's, and he renounced the organization decades ago, before ever holding office. Hardly comparable. 

That 1990 ad was injected in the senate race because he was losing ground to Gant at that time.

The 1990 ad attacked the system of quotas which are unconstitutional.  It is not racist to work towards a color-blind society.  Sorry but that dog wont hunt.   

Oh and homosexuality - still a sin.

[RiversideGator]

And again.  Consider the international obituaries on this evil man, gentlemen.  They are the ghosts of your christmasses future.

International obituaries?  hahaha. 

These are no gage of the worth of an American man. 

[RiversideGator]

And again.  Consider the international obituaries on this evil man, gentlemen.  They are the ghosts of your christmasses future.

International obituaries?  hahaha. 

These are no gage of the worth of an American man. 

typical nonsense.

Then limit yourself to the transnational american ones.  He was a hated and despised man.  For the policies which several people are rushing to defend.

Anyways, Belshazzar.  Read the writing on the wall.

Hated and despised by the left probably means he was a successful advocate for his positions.   

[Driven1]

So in your opinion, Southern Blacks and Gay people in general  are the "Left"?

wow.

For the record, my fine feathered pharisee, here are the actual commandments:

6 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

7 you shall have no other gods before me.

8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,

10 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

11 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

12 Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you.

13 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

14 But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you.

15 Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.

16 Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

17 You shall not murder.

18 Neither shall you commit adultery.

19 Neither shall you steal.

20 Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbour.

21 Neither shall you covet your neighbour’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbour’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

I dont see a single damn thing in these ten basic rules about redecorating or sodomy.

I do see a big reference to adultery and coveting the neighbors wife (or oil).

Since you are a McCain backer, please spare me your pithy biblical references in politics.

you DO KNOW that there were over 600 commandments in the Old Testament right?  not just "ten basic rules".

here are others that actually (at least partially) deal with sodomy...
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 18:22

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Leviticus 20:13

Being in the Old Testament, it is also part and parcel of Judaism (hate that religion too).
Not to be left out, the Qur'an prohibits the same (the reason you find ZERO "outted" homosexuals in Tehran)...

"We also sent Lut: He said to his people: Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"" (Qur'an 7:80-82)

ps - the Bible has ZERO to say about oil or Democrats or Republicans      

[Driven1]

got it driven.   You agree with your former senior senator.

Guess that means your off bacon as well?

stephen...why are you taking this so personal?  we are having an intelligent debate and i simply stated some facts you did not know.  i never mentioned where i stood on this issue - only where the texts of three world religions stand. 

please, don't take this so personal. 

[Driven1]

its not personal.

Just asking which parts of judeo christianity you pick and choose to believe.

So I assume you are completely off pork, since its one of those 600 'commandments',

I also assume that you make sure not to read scripture or pray until after your bowel movements are complete and not to eat in the interim between crapping and praying?

And of course, dairy and meat are out as well.

right?

followers of Jesus are under the New Covenant (which specifically cites an OT passage when reiterating that sodomic-like actions are sinful...as a note, under the New Covenant, food restrictions are removed). 

you were posting to RG from the Old Testament, so I assumed you were choosing to try to live under the law or were a hasidic Jew.  and you were choosing and picking only 10 commandments, when - if you choose to follow those religion(s) - you are required to follow all of them.  and you had specifically said "I dont see a single damn thing..." about sodomy.  well, yeah - not in those 10 commandments you listed. 

but in the 600+, there certainly are.  and in your picking and choosing of only 10, you were missing those.  so i helped you out and then threw in the Qur'an's admonishments for good measure to show that Christianity and Judaism weren't alone in condemning sodomy.   

hope this helps.

[vicupstate]

Helms, unlike Thurmond and George Wallace, never had any coming to terms with the incendiary racial appeals of his early radio broadcasts, and was outspoken in his condemnation of homosexuals, whom he called “weak, morally sick wretches.” But modernity seemed to have a way of asserting itself in his story. The image that will always be identified with Helms is that of the white hands crumpling a job rejection slip in the famous ad he used in his 1990 race against Harvey Gantt.

Years later, the creator of that ad, Arthur Finkelstein, was revealed to be a gay man who was raising a child with his partner in New York.

Priceless. 


http://www.southernpoliticalreport.com/storylink_76_463.aspx

Robert Byrd, age 91, was in the KKK when he was in his 20's, and he renounced the organization decades ago, before ever holding office. Hardly comparable. 

That 1990 ad was injected in the senate race because he was losing ground to Gant at that time.

The 1990 ad attacked the system of quotas which are unconstitutional.  It is not racist to work towards a color-blind society.  Sorry but that dog wont hunt.   

Oh and homosexuality - still a sin.

Yes, and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 infringed on 'States Rights'.  The GOP always has at least SOME rationale, weak as it may be, to justify their code words.          

The 'quotas' weren't found to be unconstitutional until later when the SP changed precedent.   They had been in place in Helms' prior races too.  He didn't run campaign ads about them prior to '90 though because his opponents weren't themselves minorities.  

Sorry, inflaming racial tensions for political gain is racist.  Unfortunately, the GOP continues to play from that hymn book too, witness the 2006 Tennessee Senate race.  


Homosexuality  - a sin --  in your opinion, not mine.  BTW, is racism a sin?  Has anyone born in the last 2000 years not sinned?  Have you sinned?   Certainly NOT, that would put you in the same class as those despicable HOMOSEXUALS !!

Hey, if Crist can change his mind about gay marriage, surely you have to at least CONSIDER it.   Who is he marrying anyway, Liza Minnelli??        

[RiversideGator]

So in your opinion, Southern Blacks and Gay people in general  are the "Left"?

Where do you get this from?  Some of the above are members of the left and some are members of the right.

[RiversideGator]

Yes, and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 infringed on 'States Rights'.  The GOP always has at least SOME rationale, weak as it may be, to justify their code words.               

May I remind you that a greater percentage of Republicans voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act than did Democrats.   

The 'quotas' weren't found to be unconstitutional until later when the SP changed precedent.   They had been in place in Helms' prior races too.  He didn't run campaign ads about them prior to '90 though because his opponents weren't themselves minorities. 
 

So, if your opponent is a black man you cannot mention the fact that you oppose reverse racism and he supports it?  Interesting standards you have, vic.

Sorry, inflaming racial tensions for political gain is racist.  Unfortunately, the GOP continues to play from that hymn book too, witness the 2006 Tennessee Senate race. 
 

Another canard.

Homosexuality  - a sin --  in your opinion, not mine.  BTW, is racism a sin?  Has anyone born in the last 2000 years not sinned?  Have you sinned?   Certainly NOT, that would put you in the same class as those despicable HOMOSEXUALS !!

Racism is a sin just as homosexual conduct is a sin.  And, I have sinned as have all people on this Earth.  The difference is I dont pretend that my sins are not sins.

Hey, if Crist can change his mind about gay marriage, surely you have to at least CONSIDER it.   Who is he marrying anyway, Liza Minnelli??

Crist is hardly my guiding light.   

[RiversideGator]

So in your opinion, Southern Blacks and Gay people in general  are the "Left"?

Where do you get this from?  Some of the above are members of the left and some are members of the right.

So then you would say that he was more universally reviled? Since those were his stated enemies.

Stated by you alone.

[Driven1]

Hm... New Covenant?  wow.   Sounds a bit like a cult to me.

Here's what Jesus actually said on the matter:
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”  (Matthew 5:18-19)

Doesnt exactly sound like it backs up the theory that the old law is passed away and that a 'new covenant' replaces it, but hey, what did Jesus know about it?

But you have proven smarter than Jesus on a couple of occasions in the matter of Christianity, so Im definitely prepared to be wrong.

stephen, even though i know your heart here is one of sarcasm and challenge and not truly seeking the truth, i will explain Matt 5:18-19 to you.  for starters, you made the mistake (whether on purpose or not, i cannot speculate) that most people who are antagonistic to Christ do...you left out a key verse...verse 17 says...

""Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."

THAT IS KEY.  what does "fulfill" mean?  "to meet or satisfy the requirements of".  By fulfilling the law Christ satisfied it's requirements in our place.  you omitted that verse that puts the other verses in context  -  to arrive at a preconceived notion.

a thorough reading of Romans & Hebrews while paying special attention to "the law" will reveal that God instituted the Law of the OT to show mankinds depravity...the fact that NO MAN (except God incarnated as man) could live up the standards set forth in the law - so the system of temporary animal sacrifices was instituted.  the law could only be fulfilled by one Man - Jesus (again, see Matt 5:17).  

those who are not followers of Jesus are still under the law.  they are still required by God to be perfect.  and none of them are ("for all have sinned").  so they all still need a "sin-bearer" - Jesus.

Jesus was right - the law will never pass away until all is accomplished (judgment day).

you should be careful (especially in a public venue) of taking random verses from the Bible and patching them together to create a more convenient Christianity.