Freedom of Speech Matters, Unless I Disagree

[spuwho]

An editorial in the Boston Herald makes light of the recent events around Donald Trump and activists trying to stop him.

Per the Boston Herald:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/tom_shattuck/2016/03/shattuck_democracy_in_action_doesn_t_mean_mob_rule

Shattuck: Democracy in action doesn't mean mob rule



"This is what democracy looks like!" jubilant insurgents screamed last night as they lay siege to the University of Illinois at Chicago pavilion, effectively choking off the exercise of free speech at the Donald Trump rally.

"Black Lives Matter" activists, Bernie Sanders supporters and other assorted "revolutionaries" then stormed the streets and tussled with police, Trump backers and anybody else who got in their way.

Trump indicated to reporters on the plane ride up to the Windy City that he expected trouble, and why wouldn't he?

The mainstream media, the Twitterverse and political opponents continually paint the man as a Nazi and a fascist, so the angry mob is empowered to stomp on him, his supporters and their First Amendment rights.

"No Trump, no KKK!" screamed the hooligans who pounded their chests while shutting down parts of the Windy City.

And the hits kept coming: "Whose streets? Our streets!" and "(Expletive) the police!" filled the air as the mob moved to squelch alternative voices.

On TV, police officers of different races protected themselves in tight circles against the crowds, while Donald Trump spoke by phone to Fox News.

"We've got such a divided country now," he said. A "59 percent unemployment rate (among African-American youth). There's a lot of anger out there ... on both sides."

Donald Trump is taking the high road while his opponents softly sanction a movement of misplaced activism that routinely chokes off the real roads that hard-working Americans use.

Social media and television exploded with anti-Trump folks celebrating the evening as a model of how to snuff out the Trump movement going forward. Meanwhile, the candidate himself is set to get the last laugh and he knows it.

"They haven't shut down the rally at all. It's on television now, and we're getting a much larger audience," he said.

Exactly. Sorry kids. That is what democracy looks like, too.

[Adam White]

I think it's a bit more complicated, though. Just as Trump has a right to speak, people have a right to protest him. His voice doesn't automatically deserve to be "louder" than the others. And from what I understand, Trump supporters started the violence. I don't know if his rally would've been shut down if there had been no violence (not saying it wouldn't have, I honestly don't know).

Also - Trump has set the tone here. He has encouraged his supporters to act violently towards anyone who protests his speeches. And his rhetoric has been extremely inflammatory. Freedom of speech is one thing, but words have consequences.

"Freedom of speech" generally refers to a right to not have your speech infringed in a legal sense - at least that's what it means when it comes to the First Amendment. It doesn't mean you can just show up in someone's neighbourhood, say inflammatory things and people have to sit there and listen to it. There is no Constitutional right to not be shouted over or denied the right to spew your vitriol due to direct action. And as I said, Trump has no right for his speech to be louder than anyone else's.

I don't have a problem with shutting down hate speech. Maybe I've been living in the civilised world too long, but I am okay with laws against stirring up hatred against other groups of people. I don't necessarily think Trump should be silenced, but he's sailing pretty close to the wind in that area.

[whitey]

Stephen how can you deny that the sanders camp has nothing to do with these protests?

Ja'Mal Green is a sanders campaign worker and organized the rally in chicago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O877e7wJTLE

[Adam White]

Stephen how can you deny that the sanders camp has nothing to do with these protests?

Ja'Mal Green is a sanders campaign worker and organized the rally in chicago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O877e7wJTLE

Who cares? The protests were deserved.

I don't know if Bernie Sanders had anything to do with the protests, but I'm pretty sure a number of protestors were his supporters.

[whitey]

Stephen how can you deny that the sanders camp has nothing to do with these protests?

Ja'Mal Green is a sanders campaign worker and organized the rally in chicago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O877e7wJTLE

Who cares? The protests were deserved.

I don't know if Bernie Sanders had anything to do with the protests, but I'm pretty sure a number of protestors were his supporters.

stephen stated that it's a lie that sanders has any affiliation with the trump protests, I was only pointing out that he isn't quite correct with that assertion.

[Adam White]

Stephen how can you deny that the sanders camp has nothing to do with these protests?

Ja'Mal Green is a sanders campaign worker and organized the rally in chicago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O877e7wJTLE

Who cares? The protests were deserved.

I don't know if Bernie Sanders had anything to do with the protests, but I'm pretty sure a number of protestors were his supporters.

stephen stated that it's a lie that sanders has any affiliation with the trump protests, I was only pointing out that he isn't quite correct with that assertion.

Did he, though?

Looks to me like he just posted articles. I don't think anyone would argue that Sanders supporters weren't among the protestors. But Trump's assertion that Sanders was directing his supporters to protest at his rallies appears, based on the evidence available, to be baseless.

[whitey]

In the article, Shattuck keeps repeating the same lies that are part of the official Trump campaign (i.e., the trouble makers that Trump supporters keep having to beat and humiliate are 'Bernie Sanders' supporters

This was what I was referring to, Adam

[spuwho]

spuwho,  Tom Shattuk is a serial liar and apologist for Trump, and the official right wing editorialist for a fairly old newspaper that was revived and subsequently ruined by Rupert Murdoch, the owner of Fox News.

When anti monopoly laws forced Murdoch to sell the paper in order to keep the television station, it was bought by one of his most conservative employees and has been at least as credible a voice from the right wing as Neil Cavuto ever since.

In the article, Shattuck keeps repeating the same lies that are part of the official Trump campaign (i.e., the trouble makers that Trump supporters keep having to beat and humiliate are 'Bernie Sanders' supporters ----even going so far as deliberately claiming that one of Trumps seig heiling supporters was actually a Bernie Campaign worker http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/03/12/the-thing-about-that-photo-from-the-trump-rally/ )

So, you might as well have published an opinion from Trumps campaign director. 

Trump hasn't taken the 'high road'.  He's been the chief instigator of the crowd directed violence and everyone in the country has been warning him that this kind of behavior leads to exactly this kind of thing.

tit for tat in an escalating cycle.

What on earth made him think that encouraging his racist rabble to attack any protestors physically ('They need it" ,. "Don't worry, ill pay your legal bills") in front of the cameras in the world wasn't going to provoke an equally forceful reaction?

This is the entire point of representative democracy.

Hes a bully, and apparently many of his supporters are as well.

And if he doesn't forcefully disavow violence, then for the first time in a hundred years , murder in the streets will become a part of our political process.

The right wing never wants to take responsibility for the violence that their rhetoric produces, from the murder of george tiller to the rash of shootings of 'liberal' figures like gabby gifford and the attendees of black churches and unitarian congregations, but denial withstanding, this is what donald (and the republican party) have been flirting with since the 1960s.

Donald didn't cancel the speech because it was too dangerous for him, it was because his arrival would embolden the thugs amongst his supporters. 

Making the appearance would have driven the violent monster that has become his following to violently prove to daddy that they love him.

He's a cancer on this society, and he's willfully become so.

Thanks Stephen,

In this case I didnt do a background check on the author or the paper he worked for.

I thought the editorial interesting becuase I dont see Republican functionaries at Sanders or Clinton events protesting.

In fact I am trying to remember outside of the tea party when anyone protested at a democratic candidates rally at all, let alone trying to silence the candidate.

[Adam White]

spuwho,  Tom Shattuk is a serial liar and apologist for Trump, and the official right wing editorialist for a fairly old newspaper that was revived and subsequently ruined by Rupert Murdoch, the owner of Fox News.

When anti monopoly laws forced Murdoch to sell the paper in order to keep the television station, it was bought by one of his most conservative employees and has been at least as credible a voice from the right wing as Neil Cavuto ever since.

In the article, Shattuck keeps repeating the same lies that are part of the official Trump campaign (i.e., the trouble makers that Trump supporters keep having to beat and humiliate are 'Bernie Sanders' supporters ----even going so far as deliberately claiming that one of Trumps seig heiling supporters was actually a Bernie Campaign worker http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/03/12/the-thing-about-that-photo-from-the-trump-rally/ )

So, you might as well have published an opinion from Trumps campaign director. 

Trump hasn't taken the 'high road'.  He's been the chief instigator of the crowd directed violence and everyone in the country has been warning him that this kind of behavior leads to exactly this kind of thing.

tit for tat in an escalating cycle.

What on earth made him think that encouraging his racist rabble to attack any protestors physically ('They need it" ,. "Don't worry, ill pay your legal bills") in front of the cameras in the world wasn't going to provoke an equally forceful reaction?

This is the entire point of representative democracy.

Hes a bully, and apparently many of his supporters are as well.

And if he doesn't forcefully disavow violence, then for the first time in a hundred years , murder in the streets will become a part of our political process.

The right wing never wants to take responsibility for the violence that their rhetoric produces, from the murder of george tiller to the rash of shootings of 'liberal' figures like gabby gifford and the attendees of black churches and unitarian congregations, but denial withstanding, this is what donald (and the republican party) have been flirting with since the 1960s.

Donald didn't cancel the speech because it was too dangerous for him, it was because his arrival would embolden the thugs amongst his supporters. 

Making the appearance would have driven the violent monster that has become his following to violently prove to daddy that they love him.

He's a cancer on this society, and he's willfully become so.

Thanks Stephen,

In this case I didnt do a background check on the author or the paper he worked for.

I thought the editorial interesting becuase I dont see Republican functionaries at Sanders or Clinton events protesting.

In fact I am trying to remember outside of the tea party when anyone protested at a democratic candidates rally at all, let alone trying to silence the candidate.

That's likely due to the message of the candidate.

And it's worth remembering that Sanders was shouted down by BLM protestors a few months ago - and Clinton has had the same issue.

[finehoe]

In fact I am trying to remember outside of the tea party when anyone protested at a democratic candidates rally at all, let alone trying to silence the candidate.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

[Adam White]

In fact I am trying to remember outside of the tea party when anyone protested at a democratic candidates rally at all, let alone trying to silence the candidate.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

LOL!