Changes to Luminaries

[camarocane]

I was there three years ago and I agree with the stance on the candy tossing/littering. I decided to take the Vette out one night and ended up on St. Johns not knowing what I was getting myself into... Luckily I just has to scrape gum off my car, no damage. But Ive been back since and loved watching the floats! If JSO is paid to be out there anyway, couldnt they just ticket people for throwing candy? Is that the only problem everyone has about this parade?
Regardless, im interested to see Luminaria this year. From what Ive heard from RAP, it will still be a nice event. 

[Adam White]

This is a shame. The event was tons of fun in years past.
Last year I played Christmas tunes from a trailer with a full band being towed by a truck with a fake snow machine.
I didn't see any "barnyardesque ass bearing" but, I guess that's what you get from a neighborhood that once believed Mellow Mushroom was the bringer of the apocalypse.

A lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook.

That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.

The way things have been going lately with their stance on hassling restaurants, I'd be inclined to agree with you, except I can't on this one. It's gotten out of control. A couple years ago, some redneck riding in the back of a truck pelted me with jollyranchers when I drove by (top was down). That pissed me off bad enough (jollyranchers hurt when you throw them hard), but worse was finding jollyranchers halfway melted into the carpets in that car until I got rid of it. All around just a total dick move.

Last year walking down there, there were drunk idiots in a trailer being towed behind a truck, apparently got in a fight with somebody, they were yelling faggot, pussy, etc., at people on the sidewalk with kids around everywhere. That's also the year I noticed a bunch of the visitors, or whatever you want to call them, brought potato guns and super soakers that they'd shoot at you with from the back of the trucks/trailers. It's become christmas-themed paintball lately.

None of this behavior comes from the floats or the people I recognize that live here. It's people I don't recognize doing this stuff while riding in the backs of trucks. It really has gotten problematic the last few years. I don't go anymore.

Point taken. That sucks.

[L.P. Hovercraft]

One of the neatest things ever was a bike parade a couple of years ago. L O N G chain of bike riders.

IMO the bike parade is really the funnest way to experience Luminaria and enjoy the sights of the neighborhood.

Here's a video from 2008; I don't think there's been a police escort or even an "official" organized bike ride the past several years which I'm sure has added to the candy hurling mayhem:
https://youtu.be/fAt8gLIDG9Y

Edit:
This clip really shows off the number of people on bikes that year:
https://youtu.be/auc-71e7Ja8?t=5m3s

It would be a damn shame to see this event wither away because of a few sociopathic a*holes who think throwing candy or shooting water or potato guns at strangers during a public gathering is a perfectly normal and rational thing to do to celebrate the holidays.

[Captain Zissou]

At the rate it was going, someone was bound to get hurt, then sue the city (since this is not a RAP sponsored event) and then the whole event would go down the toilet.

So RAP makes tens of thousands of dollars from selling the kits (I helped to make and sell kits last year, they make tons), but they claim no responsibility for the goings on?  That seems like a pretty convenient stance to take.  They make it seem like your civic duty to buy a set of bags, but then they wipe their hands of the consequences when it they succeed at their jobs.

[Lucasjj]

The aggressiveness of people either throwing hard candy or yelling obscenities has made me avoid St Johns for the last couple years. Cutting across it to get to Richmond st and back along the river is the only reason I go near it. The parade as it currently exists has a whole different feel than what I want to get out of luminaries.

I do agree that the bike is the way to go. You can see more this way than in a car since traffic gets bottled up. The organized rides were stopped a couple years ago due to the issues that they are trying to deal with by changing the rules this year.

This is an MJ post from 2013.

In my inbox this afternoon:

We have gotten many questions about the bicycle ride to see the Riverside Avondale Luminaria which has been a popular event in the neighborhood for over twenty years.
In the last few years Luminaria has become chaotic and unsafe. The JSO Officers that we spoke to about the event fully agree.

CityCycle is not promoting or participating in a Luminaria bike ride this year - it would be irresponsible to do so.

It would be devastating to see someone get hurt and rescue vehicles not be able to get to them because of the complete gridlock we have seen the last couple of years. The event is certainly not safe for kids! Children are hanging out car windows, standing on running boards, riding on hoods, etc. The number of cars, illegal trailers, horse wagons, monster trucks, and people throwing stuff has become crazy!! A double decker swamp buggy even polluted the streets last year. JSO officers say they could stop and ticket hundreds of violations. "They are unable to control things." It has become a disaster. Last year was the worst ever. This once was a nice, pleasant, peaceful evening to see the Christmas lights. It is far from that now. Two years ago I had to drive a cyclist to the emergency room after he was beat up by three young motorists. It is a shame. Residents are upset and have complained about the trash and people throwing things. There have also been complaints about bicycle riding on the wrong side of the road, through yards, and running over luminaries, etc.
Several officers have suggested closing St. Johns Avenue down to car traffic. But that will be up to the residents and RAP (Riverside Avondale Preservation).
Everyone is free to make the best of the evening and to be careful. Hopefully something will be done soon to make it a nice event. Maybe JSO will step up patrols to ticket many of the bad apples who have ruined this wonderful event.

Thanks
Drew

[ricker]

Maybe the JSO patrol following Pellot and Duckworth, or possibly zone commander.Gayle could lead and bookend a bike parade?
Does anyone want to set some departure/destination/route /timeline info in an effort to gather enough bike riders?
Bike lights can be hilarious
Who's in?

[WmNussbaum]

I might agree with Capt. Z to the extent of saying that the RAP sponsored event has turned out to be a victim of its own success, but to say that RAP should be responsible for cleaning up a mess that it never intended and that has resulted from the marginal behavior of others, is not reasonable. That behavior has gotten worse year by year, and it definitely was long past due to curb - no pun intended - it. The folks who allow truck beds or trailers to be occupied by small children and inebriates have been lucky so far that a serous injury has not occurred, but if that goes on long enough sooner or later the luck will run out.

My bottom line is this: No one asked anyone to intrude on an event that was intended to showcase a beautiful and serene visual spectacle, with hooting, hollering, horse shit, and hay all over the area. Let's go back to the way it was to begin with. 

[Know Growth]

L O N G  Bike Parade a Wonderful Component.

Too many have taken a Giant Bite out of the Avondale Commons.

L O N G bike parade,in fact 'long established', is, well.... Wonderful. 

Let's do it!!!!,Again 

L    O    N    G    (weird word if you think about it,or even if you do not.....)

Long,as in ten minutes (+,an eternity even here in  supposed Avondale Cycling Nirvana....    )as we traverse from North to South,and thence South to North,maybe even criss-crossing St Johns Avenue   

[camarocane]

Maybe the JSO patrol following Pellot and Duckworth, or possibly zone commander.Gayle could lead and bookend a bike parade?
Does anyone want to set some departure/destination/route /timeline info in an effort to gather enough bike riders?
Bike lights can be hilarious
Who's in?

My fiancée and I would love to do this! Just post when and where and we will be there.

[mtraininjax]

The level of reading comprehension here is enough to bring Stephen out of his slumber and use the 2 x 4 to exclaim......Luminaria on Dec 20 is NOT a RAP sponsored event. However, RAP has had a chance to mediate, like they have with the Roost issue to help get the JSO more involved, so that god forbid, some kid or adult falls off an unlicensed barnyard trailer and hits their head against the pavement, the entire event would be cancelled because someone had bad luck.

This is a shame. The event was tons of fun in years past.Last year I played Christmas tunes from a trailer with a full band being towed by a truck with a fake snow machine. I didn't see any "barnyardesque ass bearing" but, I guess that's what you get from a neighborhood that once believed Mellow Mushroom was the bringer of the apocalypse.

Why would you see anything but your bandmates? You are stuck playing songs, when Westsiders and their trailers invade the area. I hear Springfield plans to do something this same evening, you are welcome to go play the blues over there and do whatever they are planning to do, if common decency is to much to ask for.....so close to Christmas.

"Luminaria is one of my favorite times of year," Carmen Godwin, RAP Executive Director said. "I love seeing the community come together to enjoy their neighborhood and spending time together. How I personally enjoy Luminaria is by walking my kids through the parks and visiting with neighbors. It is also fun to hear neighbors talk about competing to see who can create the most beautiful presentation of Luminaria kits along their sidewalks and entries."

The parade and happenings that occur on St. Johns Avenue (and surrounding streets) has grown organically, and are not organized or sanctioned by RAP. In recent years, concerns have been raised about the safety, traffic, and public behavior; some of which violates both City and State laws.

As a community organization seeking to ensure a safe and enjoyable Luminaria evening for everyone, RAP has been meeting with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office (JSO) to address concerns. These meetings resulted in the conclusion that in the interest of public safety there is no way to safely allow the parade on St. Johns Avenue to continue in violation of state and city laws.

Beginning this year, the JSO will increase enforcement in the neighborhood and will not allow the following:
• Individuals riding in the back of trucks or trailers (F.S.S. 316.2015)
• Littering - From a vehicle or from person ( F.S.S. 403.413)
• Riding ATVs on public roads
• Open containers of alcoholic beverages

Riverside Avondale Preservation invites the public to come out and enjoy Luminaria on December 20th. Those visiting are asked to be respectful of property owners and not litter or throw candy; and to operate their vehicles in a safe and legal manner. The historic district is very walkable and bike friendly, and residents and visitors are encouraged to take advantage of this. With the help from the residents and visitors alike, Luminaria will be a fun evening for all.

Those visiting are asked to be respectful of property owners and not litter or throw candy; and to operate their vehicles in a safe and legal manner. - How much is it to ask people to respect others, this close to Christmas? Why is it so hard for people to "get it"?

My bottom line is this: No one asked anyone to intrude on an event that was intended to showcase a beautiful and serene visual spectacle, with hooting, hollering, horse shit, and hay all over the area. Let's go back to the way it was to begin with.

Amen brother, and if you can't or don't want to follow directions, stay the heck out of Riverside Avondale for the event. Its that simple.

[mtraininjax]

So RAP makes tens of thousands of dollars from selling the kits (I helped to make and sell kits last year, they make tons), but they claim no responsibility for the goings on?  That seems like a pretty convenient stance to take.  They make it seem like your civic duty to buy a set of bags, but then they wipe their hands of the consequences when it they succeed at their jobs.

You forgot to mention the money that the St. Johns Flower Market makes, the money the Avondale Methodist Church makes and other churches and civic groups who sell bags, candles and sand for their own "fundraising efforts". Yet they seem to turn a blind eye to the chicanery going on and are only interested in making money to fund their own pockets....

A lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook. That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.

Uh, yeah, not a RAP sanctioned event, where are all the barnyard trailers the other 364 days of the year and why aren't they used more to parade people around the area, like say, any evening during the holiday season? Having someone get hurt, may be the only way to open the eyes of those who think the area is full of, DARE I say it, "Snobs". 

It's become Christmas-themed paintball lately.

It has and its worse in Avondale than in Riverside. The traffic load on St. Johns in the Shoppes is tremendous and that is where most of the stuff happens. The streets were not built to handle parking on both sides and it becomes a mess on some of the side roads. Hopefully the JSO can assist with it this year.

[Tacachale]

RAP sells luminaries to raise money and have luminaries in the neighborhood. San Marco and Arlington also sell them, but people would never think to blame them if a bunch of people came to the neighborhood and started throwing things and acting obnoxious. Let alone blame them for the police coming in to cut down on people throwing things and being obnoxious. RAP ain't the bad guys here. In fact, there really aren't any bad guys at all. The luminaria will still be nice, likely more so.

[Adam White]

You are stuck playing songs, when Westsiders and their trailers invade the area.

As I said, there is a snobbish element to this.

[Adam White]

A lot of this sounds like the dicks in RAP trying to keep "their" neighborhood "exclusive" or whatever. They are trying to keep the wrong kind of people out of Avondale. I've heard similar things from snobs I'm friends with on Facebook. That's not to say there might not be issues - but it seems like RAP is overstepping, once again.

Uh, yeah, not a RAP sanctioned event, where are all the barnyard trailers the other 364 days of the year and why aren't they used more to parade people around the area, like say, any evening during the holiday season? Having someone get hurt, may be the only way to open the eyes of those who think the area is full of, DARE I say it, "Snobs". 

Wasn't it you bemoaning the level of reading comprehension? There's a saying about stones and glass houses. I never said this was a RAP-sanctioned event. That's why I was accusing RAP of "overstepping".

[PeeJayEss]

I suppose I'm in the minority here, but I am PRO the shit-show atmosphere.
At what point was this a classy, low-key event? People spreading thousands of fire hazards around the neighborhood and driving around drunk with their cars and trailers covered in questionable electrical work. Also, these changes (or, rather, increased enforcement of laws) do more than curb candy throwing (the generally agreed upon problem here), they eliminate the whole parade aspect. No truck beds or trailers, so no floats?

If you just want to see some pretty lighted bags in the street, go over to San Marco.