EverBank Field Development Renderings

[vicupstate]

Jeez, I hardly know where to begin.
........
Should the city take this deal?

Would you be hosting 10,000 people who would later spend money in the surrounding neighborhoods at your houses?  Would you bring in national acts that would pull in people from surrounding counties to spend money downtown?  Kahn does get a sweet deal, to be sure, but the city will benefit greatly from having more concerts downtown without drawing the ire of the crotchety residents of St Nick.

I actually would be bring PERMANENT residents who could be patronizing restaurants and other businesses on a continual basis.  They would create demand (365 days a year) for all kinds of things that a tourist wouldn't. I would say that is much better than one time visitors. 

And Tacahale, my scenario was that that city WOULD own the houses.

[finehoe]

What business in town brings more 8,7, and 6 figure salaries to Jacksonville?

So you're saying that the richer the organization the more public help they should get?

[vicupstate]

What business in town brings more 8,7, and 6 figure salaries to Jacksonville?

So you're saying that the richer the organization the more public help they should get?

And that the Jags will be hiring MORE people making these high salaries because of this project?

[UNFurbanist]

Ultimately I am fairly neutral about the situation. I think as far as tourism goes there are plenty of other things it could go towards like fixing up our "nations largest urban park system" and marketing that along with a newly beautified emerald necklace project. However, I understand that this could be a great quality of life boost and we do sorely need to compete with other big cities in the realm of bringing quality acts and music to town. If this helps in netting even 10 more big acts per year that wouldn't come here otherwise it's a win. Not only in the possible tourism but in showing young people that we can get the big performances too. Plus it does at least look really nice. If they can now turn metro park into something really useful and enjoyable then I'll consider this a big win.

[BridgeTroll]

What business in town brings more 8,7, and 6 figure salaries to Jacksonville?

So you're saying that the richer the organization the more public help they should get?

And that the Jags will be hiring MORE people making these high salaries because of this project?

I am saying... the diversity and wages brought to this city by the Jaguars... would NOT be here but for the Jaguars.  The project will certainly employ more people... probably not in the 8 figure range but...

[Tacachale]

What business in town brings more 8,7, and 6 figure salaries to Jacksonville?

So you're saying that the richer the organization the more public help they should get?

You frame it as if the benefit to the city is irrelevant as long as the Jaguars are involved in any fashion. That's not a good way to get things done.

[Tacachale]

Jeez, I hardly know where to begin.
........
Should the city take this deal?

Would you be hosting 10,000 people who would later spend money in the surrounding neighborhoods at your houses?  Would you bring in national acts that would pull in people from surrounding counties to spend money downtown?  Kahn does get a sweet deal, to be sure, but the city will benefit greatly from having more concerts downtown without drawing the ire of the crotchety residents of St Nick.

I actually would be bring PERMANENT residents who could be patronizing restaurants and other businesses on a continual basis.  They would create demand (365 days a year) for all kinds of things that a tourist wouldn't. I would say that is much better than one time visitors. 

And Tacahale, my scenario was that that city WOULD own the houses.

It's still a hypothetical scenario based on money you don't actually have. It's obviously not hard to make a fantasy that sounds better than reality.

[finehoe]

You frame it as if the benefit to the city is irrelevant as long as the Jaguars are involved in any fashion. That's not a good way to get things done.

No.  You said we wouldn't be having the discussion if it wasn't the Jaguars, and I said you're absolutely right because if it was anyone besides the Jaguars, the city wouldn't be putting up this kind of money.  It's not a question of if the city will benefit, but one of are the benefits commensurate with the costs.

[Tacachale]

You frame it as if the benefit to the city is irrelevant as long as the Jaguars are involved in any fashion. That's not a good way to get things done.

No.  You said we wouldn't be having the discussion if it wasn't the Jaguars, and I said you're absolutely right because if it was anyone besides the Jaguars, the city wouldn't be putting up this kind of money. It's not a question of if the city will benefit, but one of are the benefits commensurate with the costs.

I said that if the city were doing this project (for the same cost) without the Jaguars being involved, it probably wouldn't be controversial. You're right that the project wouldn't be happening without the Jaguars, because no one else would put $45 million into a city-owned project, and it couldn't be done for this cost without it.

If the question were really about whether the benefits were commensurate with the costs, that's what we'd be talking about. By and large, we haven't been.

[vicupstate]

Jeez, I hardly know where to begin.
........
Should the city take this deal?

Would you be hosting 10,000 people who would later spend money in the surrounding neighborhoods at your houses?  Would you bring in national acts that would pull in people from surrounding counties to spend money downtown?  Kahn does get a sweet deal, to be sure, but the city will benefit greatly from having more concerts downtown without drawing the ire of the crotchety residents of St Nick.

I actually would be bring PERMANENT residents who could be patronizing restaurants and other businesses on a continual basis.  They would create demand (365 days a year) for all kinds of things that a tourist wouldn't. I would say that is much better than one time visitors. 

And Tacahale, my scenario was that that city WOULD own the houses.

It's still a hypothetical scenario based on money you don't actually have. It's obviously not hard to make a fantasy that sounds better than reality.

Actually, there is no need for ONE person to make this deal. The city could offer the same terms to an unlimited numbers of developers, and in a week they would have enough takers to cover the 500 houses.

Frankly, you missed my entire point. The hypothetical is a LOUSY deal for the city just as the Khan deal is (albeit mine is somewhat better IMO).  That is the point I was trying to make, but with an example more people could relate to. 

[finehoe]

Actually, there is no need for ONE person to make this deal. The city could offer the same terms to an unlimited numbers of developers, and in a week they would have enough takers to cover the 500 houses.

Frankly, you missed my entire point. The hypothetical is a LOUSY deal for the city just as the Khan deal is (albeit mine is somewhat better IMO).  That is the point I was trying to make, but with an example more people could relate to.

Yeah, but you're not a billionaire, so you don't count.

[Adam White]

Actually, there is no need for ONE person to make this deal. The city could offer the same terms to an unlimited numbers of developers, and in a week they would have enough takers to cover the 500 houses.

Frankly, you missed my entire point. The hypothetical is a LOUSY deal for the city just as the Khan deal is (albeit mine is somewhat better IMO).  That is the point I was trying to make, but with an example more people could relate to.

Yeah, but you're not a billionaire, so you don't count.

My concern would be that the city is going to spend all this money and not get to see any of the money made at the venue. Is that the case? The original article wasn't clear - it only said that a company affiliated with the Jaguars would manage the place.

If the city was going to get a reasonable cut of the money, then it wouldn't be such an issue for me.

[MusicMan]

COREDUMPED SAYS: " The Jags bring 60,000 people downtown every weekend."

No they do not. They play 7-8 home games a year. Just want to make sure that was understood.

One of the issues with the stadium is it sits vacant 300+ days per year.

[Tacachale]

Jeez, I hardly know where to begin.
........
Should the city take this deal?

Would you be hosting 10,000 people who would later spend money in the surrounding neighborhoods at your houses?  Would you bring in national acts that would pull in people from surrounding counties to spend money downtown?  Kahn does get a sweet deal, to be sure, but the city will benefit greatly from having more concerts downtown without drawing the ire of the crotchety residents of St Nick.

I actually would be bring PERMANENT residents who could be patronizing restaurants and other businesses on a continual basis.  They would create demand (365 days a year) for all kinds of things that a tourist wouldn't. I would say that is much better than one time visitors. 

And Tacahale, my scenario was that that city WOULD own the houses.

It's still a hypothetical scenario based on money you don't actually have. It's obviously not hard to make a fantasy that sounds better than reality.

Actually, there is no need for ONE person to make this deal. The city could offer the same terms to an unlimited numbers of developers, and in a week they would have enough takers to cover the 500 houses.

Frankly, you missed my entire point. The hypothetical is a LOUSY deal for the city just as the Khan deal is (albeit mine is somewhat better IMO).  That is the point I was trying to make, but with an example more people could relate to.

If that was your point, you didn't make it very well.

[finehoe]

If that was your point, you didn't make it very well.

Either that, or you chose to focus on vicupstate's net worth rather than his argument.