90 Million more to be spent on Everbank Stadium?

[Jax-Nole]

So what are the parameters of Capital improvements in Jacksonville and what qualifies?   You may be surprised.  Certainly there are some important and necessary items on this list.  For all the information, click the link at the bottom of this post. 

Again, what is the best use of this funding?  Money to parks has been cut over the years, many facilities are lacking.  Drainage issues in our poorest neighborhoods still have not been resolved along with flooding issues throughout Jacksonville. Public Safety structure.  Has anyone been inside the Police Memorial building lately. How about the jail where sewage regularly backs up into the courtrooms and low lying areas? The main JSO hub downtown is well beyond it's life span with some areas that are absolutely run down. Road, Infrastructure, transportation  etc.  Hello Jacksonville what are our need as opposed to wants?  We need to make better decisions for the health of this city.

Identifying Projects
Departments complete a CIP request form with information above and use a standardized matrix to score projects prior to submitting them to the Finance Department. To assist in balancing and prioritizing needs across the City, departments further identify projects by one of the following 'Program Areas'

Drainage - Project that improves drainage conditions and reduces flooding.
Environment/Quality of Life - Project that would promote or improve the environment for the citizens of Jacksonville (e.g. water treatment plants).
Government Facilities – Project designated as government facilities with primarily employee occupancy.
Parks - Project with buildings, grounds and/or recreational facilities within the park boundaries, also including the Preservation Project.
Public Facilities – Project for facilities designated for primarily citizen use and include facilities such as the county courthouse, arena, and baseball park.
Public Safety - Project relating to public safety including facilities.
Roads/Infrastructure/Transportation – Project dedicated to expanding and widening roads; interchanges, overpasses and intersection improvements; and also includes: Road resurfacing,
Sidewalks/bike paths, along with landscaping/tree planting along road improvement projects.
Targeted Economic Development – Project is used to stimulate growth and revitalization by providing grants and loans for infrastructure, public improvements, and project development.

http://www.coj.net/departments/finance/budget/capital-improvement-plans.aspx

Which items on this list can the bed tax legally be used on?

Direct from COJ.net:

"Jacksonville currently levies a six percent tourist development tax on transient accommodations in the city. In addition to its many other duties, The Tourist Development Council (TDC) utilizes a portion of this tax to fund tourism promotions and events that will generate a substantial number of visitors to Jacksonville, the Beaches and Baldwin. In doing so, the TDC has a unique opportunity to impact tourism by offering grants for those applicants that are planning a convention, special event or conference in the Jacksonville area.
The TDC reviews competitive applications and allocates funding to help pay for the operational and advertising expenses of festivals, sporting events, conferences and the like, all of which have the potential of attracting substantial numbers of visitors who will book hotel rooms, eat in area restaurants, visit attractions and shop in the city while attending the supported event."
http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

[Tacachale]

So what are the parameters of Capital improvements in Jacksonville and what qualifies?   You may be surprised.  Certainly there are some important and necessary items on this list.  For all the information, click the link at the bottom of this post. 

Again, what is the best use of this funding?  Money to parks has been cut over the years, many facilities are lacking.  Drainage issues in our poorest neighborhoods still have not been resolved along with flooding issues throughout Jacksonville. Public Safety structure.  Has anyone been inside the Police Memorial building lately. How about the jail where sewage regularly backs up into the courtrooms and low lying areas? The main JSO hub downtown is well beyond it's life span with some areas that are absolutely run down. Road, Infrastructure, transportation  etc.  Hello Jacksonville what are our need as opposed to wants?  We need to make better decisions for the health of this city.

Identifying Projects
Departments complete a CIP request form with information above and use a standardized matrix to score projects prior to submitting them to the Finance Department. To assist in balancing and prioritizing needs across the City, departments further identify projects by one of the following 'Program Areas'

Drainage - Project that improves drainage conditions and reduces flooding.
Environment/Quality of Life - Project that would promote or improve the environment for the citizens of Jacksonville (e.g. water treatment plants).
Government Facilities – Project designated as government facilities with primarily employee occupancy.
Parks - Project with buildings, grounds and/or recreational facilities within the park boundaries, also including the Preservation Project.
Public Facilities – Project for facilities designated for primarily citizen use and include facilities such as the county courthouse, arena, and baseball park.
Public Safety - Project relating to public safety including facilities.
Roads/Infrastructure/Transportation – Project dedicated to expanding and widening roads; interchanges, overpasses and intersection improvements; and also includes: Road resurfacing,
Sidewalks/bike paths, along with landscaping/tree planting along road improvement projects.
Targeted Economic Development – Project is used to stimulate growth and revitalization by providing grants and loans for infrastructure, public improvements, and project development.

http://www.coj.net/departments/finance/budget/capital-improvement-plans.aspx

Which items on this list can the bed tax legally be used on?

Direct from COJ.net:

"Jacksonville currently levies a six percent tourist development tax on transient accommodations in the city. In addition to its many other duties, The Tourist Development Council (TDC) utilizes a portion of this tax to fund tourism promotions and events that will generate a substantial number of visitors to Jacksonville, the Beaches and Baldwin. In doing so, the TDC has a unique opportunity to impact tourism by offering grants for those applicants that are planning a convention, special event or conference in the Jacksonville area.
The TDC reviews competitive applications and allocates funding to help pay for the operational and advertising expenses of festivals, sporting events, conferences and the like, all of which have the potential of attracting substantial numbers of visitors who will book hotel rooms, eat in area restaurants, visit attractions and shop in the city while attending the supported event."
http://www.coj.net/city-council/tourist-development-council.aspx

To answer your question: basically only public facilities. It is possible something else could use the money from one of those categories, but most of them don't really draw the tourism that the tax is meant for.

Correct. None of the bed tax can be spent in that way. In fact, right now, the money that's presumably being tapped for this project is tied specifically to the sports district. Of the bed tax, 2% is dedicated to debt service to pay down past projects, and another 2% is committed to tourism promotion for the county as a whole. In 2009, the final 2% was committed to projects within the sports district, so barring a change in the law it's going to go either to the existing facilities or new ones built in the area.

[Tacachale]

Interesting comparison:

In 2013, the city agreed to spend $43 million in hotel bed tax money to install two jumbo scoreboards and build a 42,000-square-foot fan zone outfitted with swimming pools. Jaguars owner Shad Khan put $20 million toward the deal.

http://jacksonville.com/news/2015-11-05/story/amphitheater-part-proposed-90-million-improvement-plan-everbank-field-city

The current proposal is $45 million from the city and $45 million from Khan, and involves club seat improvements, and amphitheater, and an indoor field.

[Adam White]

Some of the regulars on this board . . . I mean, damn. Like CG7, it's hard to see this as something other than a win-win. And, it solves the Metropolitan Park problem.

Believe it or not, this project seriously helps the urban core -- it's going to bring some real life to downtown on a much more regular basis. The practice facility is going to have utility far beyond a practice space for the Jags.

Take a step back; give the bitching and moaning a break.

Then why don't you and your Jaguar-loving buddies pay for the fucking thing and not saddle everyone else with the bill.

See, this exact argument is made against all forms of cultural spending. Generally, the amount particular individuals pay isn't a whole lot.

You're right. But in this case, we're talking about using the public purse to finance a very profitable business owned by a billionaire. We're not talking about schools, roads, libraries, museums or trains.

Maybe the individual cost isn't very high, but the principle of the matter is what is at stake. Especially when we are having problems funding those other, far more important, things.

Except that the bed tax can not be used for any of those things you mentioned.

Of course. But as I said, it's the principle of the matter. We can "find" public money to pay a billionaire's expenses but can't seem to find ways to finance things that are actually important.

[Adam White]

Some of the regulars on this board . . . I mean, damn. Like CG7, it's hard to see this as something other than a win-win. And, it solves the Metropolitan Park problem.

Believe it or not, this project seriously helps the urban core -- it's going to bring some real life to downtown on a much more regular basis. The practice facility is going to have utility far beyond a practice space for the Jags.

Take a step back; give the bitching and moaning a break.

Then why don't you and your Jaguar-loving buddies pay for the fucking thing and not saddle everyone else with the bill.

See, this exact argument is made against all forms of cultural spending. Generally, the amount particular individuals pay isn't a whole lot.

You're right. But in this case, we're talking about using the public purse to finance a very profitable business owned by a billionaire. We're not talking about schools, roads, libraries, museums or trains.

Maybe the individual cost isn't very high, but the principle of the matter is what is at stake. Especially when we are having problems funding those other, far more important, things.

As far as that goes, this doesn't appear to be another expense just for the stadium (like big scoreboards) Leaving the actual stadium improvements aside, is $45 million an imprudent cost for a badly needed concert amphitheater and a multi-use indoor field? An amphitheater of that size could cost that much just by itself, and it's something we've been missing for 20 years. Whether rich guys stand to benefit or not, amenities like those are important.

I guess I don't agree that those amenities are important. A lot of that stuff is just going to sit empty and underused when said billionaire decides to relocate his team in a few years' time.

[RattlerGator]

If I'm going to pay to stay in a hotel, it sure won't be in Jacksonville.

This truly speaks for itself. And the following quote deserves a correction:

Of course. But as I said, it's the principle of the matter. We can "find" public money to pay a billionaire's expenses but can't seem to find ways to finance things that are actually important.

No, it's *not* the principle. Your objection is that you (or those that think like you) don't get to choose to "find" public money to pay for those things you deem important. It isn't sufficient that all manner of public funds *are* spent on things you find important that a large part of the city certainly does not -- no, it is full bitch-and-moan mode right off the bat because . . . because . . . .

This is a truly embarrassing thread for those who claim to be concerned about the urban core and bringing life back to downtown Jacksonville on a more regular basis. But, of course -- as Adam White has shown -- he's too good for that. Yay, Bernie Sanders !!!

[Adam White]

If I'm going to pay to stay in a hotel, it sure won't be in Jacksonville.

This truly speaks for itself. And the following quote deserves a correction:

Of course. But as I said, it's the principle of the matter. We can "find" public money to pay a billionaire's expenses but can't seem to find ways to finance things that are actually important.

No, it's *not* the principle. Your objection is that you (or those that think like you) don't get to choose to "find" public money to pay for those things you deem important. It isn't sufficient that all manner of public funds *are* spent on things you find important that a large part of the city certainly does not -- no, it is full bitch-and-moan mode right off the bat because . . . because . . . .

This is a truly embarrassing thread for those who claim to be concerned about the urban core and bringing life back to downtown Jacksonville on a more regular basis. But, of course -- as Adam White has shown -- he's too good for that. Yay, Bernie Sanders !!!

If you can't see the argument, then there's not much more I can say. You don't have to agree - that's fine - but it shouldn't be that hard to understand where I am coming from. I certainly think I understand your position - it's just that I don't agree with spending public funds in that way. It's not about money being spent on things I don't like - although there is no problem with that position anyway, as we all have opinions on how money is spent - but rather the idea of using public money to benefit private enterprise. And my opposition to that is consistent with my politics.

As far as politics are concerned, leave Bernie Sanders out of it. If you don't like Sanders, you'd hate the last person I voted for.

[mtraininjax]

I don't know if this was added to the discussion or not, and I am not going back 5 pages of thread to find out, but this is a good point to remember: There are 3 NFL teams that are being courted for Los Angeles. The NFL wants a team in the 2nd largest market in the US. The Jags are not one of them, they are:

1. San Diego Charges
2. Oakland Raiders
3. St. Louis Rams

All because the local cities said they would not "burden" their local municipalities with a debt for new stadium features. I applaud Khan for not throwing Jacksonville into that mix. LA is more of a immediate threat than London.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/8/12/9131641/nfl-los-angeles-relocation-rams-chargers-raiders

[Adam White]

I don't know if this was added to the discussion or not, and I am not going back 5 pages of thread to find out, but this is a good point to remember: There are 3 NFL teams that are being courted for Los Angeles. The NFL wants a team in the 2nd largest market in the US. The Jags are not one of them, they are:

1. San Diego Charges
2. Oakland Raiders
3. St. Louis Rams

All because the local cities said they would not "burden" their local municipalities with a debt for new stadium features. I applaud Khan for not throwing Jacksonville into that mix. LA is more of a immediate threat than London.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/8/12/9131641/nfl-los-angeles-relocation-rams-chargers-raiders

That might be the case - and I'm not saying it isn't. But nothing is 100% secure and that list is not an "official" list of the only franchises that can move.

The Jaguars may never move - and Shahid Khan may well be a really principled person. But anything can happen and business people tend to do what's in the best interest of their bottom line. So don't get too comfortable or smug about it.

[RattlerGator]

If you can't see the argument, then there's not much more I can say. You don't have to agree - that's fine - but it shouldn't be that hard to understand where I am coming from. I certainly think I understand your position - it's just that I don't agree with spending public funds in that way. It's not about money being spent on things I don't like - although there is no problem with that position anyway, as we all have opinions on how money is spent - but rather the idea of using public money to benefit private enterprise. And my opposition to that is consistent with my politics.

Adam, it isn't that I can't *see* the argument. But my sight allows me to clearly see that you're insisting upon a mistaken notion to rigidly oppose this effort. To the contrary, this isn't using public money to benefit a private enterprise, this is using private money to benefit a public enterprise; the city will have two new assets after this transaction, two premier assets. Now you still may not like it, but lets at least be honest about that.

• The new concept, Mousa said, will cost $20 million and provide a multiuse facility owned by the city that can house concerts and other events in addition to the team's football activities.
• The facility would be tucked between the practice facility and the stadium. It could accommodate 10,000 people — 5,000 in fixed seating and 5,000 on a berm. Like the practice facility, the city would own this. However, a Jaguars subsidiary, American Thunder, would manage and operate it.
• The Jaguars will design and construct the facilities, but the city will have oversight, Mousa said. And the city's portion is capped at $45 million — the team pays any overruns. Should the projects come in under budget, the city and team would split what's left equally.

We've elected a clearly competent administration, one that has just as clearly brought people back into city government that even regulars on this board -- some of whom have embarrassed themselves in their response to this initiative -- have applauded. Our interests are being protected as best one can tell at this incredibly early part of the process. The city is gaining two new assets.

Gaining!

Please, stop with the bitching and moaning and -- even worse -- the presuming that only a certain crowd is interested in what's best for the city.

[Adam White]

If you can't see the argument, then there's not much more I can say. You don't have to agree - that's fine - but it shouldn't be that hard to understand where I am coming from. I certainly think I understand your position - it's just that I don't agree with spending public funds in that way. It's not about money being spent on things I don't like - although there is no problem with that position anyway, as we all have opinions on how money is spent - but rather the idea of using public money to benefit private enterprise. And my opposition to that is consistent with my politics.

Adam, it isn't that I can't *see* the argument. But my sight allows me to clearly see that you're insisting upon a mistaken notion to rigidly oppose this effort. To the contrary, this isn't using public money to benefit a private enterprise, this is using private money to benefit a public enterprise; the city will have two new assets after this transaction, two premier assets. Now you still may not like it, but lets at least be honest about that.

• The new concept, Mousa said, will cost $20 million and provide a multiuse facility owned by the city that can house concerts and other events in addition to the team's football activities.
• The facility would be tucked between the practice facility and the stadium. It could accommodate 10,000 people — 5,000 in fixed seating and 5,000 on a berm. Like the practice facility, the city would own this. However, a Jaguars subsidiary, American Thunder, would manage and operate it.
• The Jaguars will design and construct the facilities, but the city will have oversight, Mousa said. And the city's portion is capped at $45 million — the team pays any overruns. Should the projects come in under budget, the city and team would split what's left equally.

We've elected a clearly competent administration, one that has just as clearly brought people back into city government that even regulars on this board -- some of whom have embarrassed themselves in their response to this initiative -- have applauded. Our interests are being protected as best one can tell at this incredibly early part of the process. The city is gaining two new assets.

Gaining!

Please, stop with the bitching and moaning and -- even worse -- the presuming that only a certain crowd is interested in what's best for the city.

The amphitheater - I don't necessarily agree that the city needs one, but I can appreciate how this is viewed as necessary or desirable by some.

The practice field - that might be owned by the city - just like the stadium - but it's main (possibly only) use will be by the Jaguars. They should pay for it - and if they move, they can try to sell it. Hell, even if they stay, they can try to find a buyer. If it's something Jax needs so badly and if it's such a good business decision, then why isn't this being done by a private entity? Why isn't this happening already without recourse to public funding.

It's not "bitching and moaning" - it's an honest assessment and difference of opinion. Stop being such a berk.

[RattlerGator]

No, Adam, it's PRIMARY business use will be for something other than practice for the Jaguars.

That thing is going to be utilized, I guarantee you, in some very creative ways. It will be a covered space, air conditioned, with all sorts of tech capabilities, downtown. Broaden your horizon, man.

[Adam White]

No, Adam, it's PRIMARY business use will be for something other than practice for the Jaguars.

That thing is going to be utilized, I guarantee you, in some very creative ways. It will be a covered space, air conditioned, with all sorts of tech capabilities, downtown. Broaden your horizon, man.

It will sit empty and unused most of the time. I would almost be willing to put money on it.

If all this sort of thing were true, downtown Jax would be the glittering jewel of NE Florida/South Georgia. But it's actually got worse since we landed the team in 1995. Or it hasn't got much better.

How much money should we throw at a professional sports team on the promise that it will revitalize Jax and make us a "first tier city?" I'd argue they've had plenty of chances to date and have failed to deliver.

[Tacachale]

Some of the regulars on this board . . . I mean, damn. Like CG7, it's hard to see this as something other than a win-win. And, it solves the Metropolitan Park problem.

Believe it or not, this project seriously helps the urban core -- it's going to bring some real life to downtown on a much more regular basis. The practice facility is going to have utility far beyond a practice space for the Jags.

Take a step back; give the bitching and moaning a break.

Then why don't you and your Jaguar-loving buddies pay for the fucking thing and not saddle everyone else with the bill.

See, this exact argument is made against all forms of cultural spending. Generally, the amount particular individuals pay isn't a whole lot.

You're right. But in this case, we're talking about using the public purse to finance a very profitable business owned by a billionaire. We're not talking about schools, roads, libraries, museums or trains.

Maybe the individual cost isn't very high, but the principle of the matter is what is at stake. Especially when we are having problems funding those other, far more important, things.

Except that the bed tax can not be used for any of those things you mentioned.

Of course. But as I said, it's the principle of the matter. We can "find" public money to pay a billionaire's expenses but can't seem to find ways to finance things that are actually important.

That's a separate issue, really. Financial mismanagement and anti-tax posturing is what has usually kept us from being able to afford the "important" things recently. But we can have both necessities and quality of life, it's not necessarily a zero sum game.

[Adam White]

Some of the regulars on this board . . . I mean, damn. Like CG7, it's hard to see this as something other than a win-win. And, it solves the Metropolitan Park problem.

Believe it or not, this project seriously helps the urban core -- it's going to bring some real life to downtown on a much more regular basis. The practice facility is going to have utility far beyond a practice space for the Jags.

Take a step back; give the bitching and moaning a break.

Then why don't you and your Jaguar-loving buddies pay for the fucking thing and not saddle everyone else with the bill.

See, this exact argument is made against all forms of cultural spending. Generally, the amount particular individuals pay isn't a whole lot.

You're right. But in this case, we're talking about using the public purse to finance a very profitable business owned by a billionaire. We're not talking about schools, roads, libraries, museums or trains.

Maybe the individual cost isn't very high, but the principle of the matter is what is at stake. Especially when we are having problems funding those other, far more important, things.

Except that the bed tax can not be used for any of those things you mentioned.

Of course. But as I said, it's the principle of the matter. We can "find" public money to pay a billionaire's expenses but can't seem to find ways to finance things that are actually important.

That's a separate issue, really. Financial mismanagement and anti-tax posturing is what has usually kept us from being able to afford the "important" things recently. But we can have both necessities and quality of life, it's not necessarily a zero sum game.

I don't think it's a zero-sum game. That actually might be an example of a straw man. I never said we can't have both necessities and quality of life. I just think we should be using public money to prop up private enterprise in this sort of way.