Toll lanes for I-95 Under Consideration

[jaxjags]

Unfortunately, NE FDOT has publicly stated we don't do beautiful roads. We just do roads.

[thelakelander]

They also said, we don't do shared use paths on Interstate bridges.....until we pushed and demanded one be included on the Fuller Warren project. The other cities across the state get extra things because they demand and push for them. The precedence has always been there. We just need to follow their lead more consistently.

[ralpho37]

Lakelander:  I wrote an email letter to Michael Brock, the FDOT project manager, to make just such a push for "upgraded aesthetics". Michael.Brock@dot.state.fl.us

[jaxjags]

I still believe color coded wayfarer signs for DT areas such as Sport District, Government District, Medical District, Museums, etc. would be helpful for both locals and visitors. Especially with all the bridges we have. Can be confusing to visitors.

[Charles Hunter]

I still believe color coded wayfarer signs for DT areas such as Sport District, Government District, Medical District, Museums, etc. would be helpful for both locals and visitors. Especially with all the bridges we have. Can be confusing to visitors.

First, you'd need the DIA to stop spending money to invent names and logos for parts of the core and agree on a color scheme - and names.

[jaxjags]

According to DR DIA is trying again.

[jaxjags]

Sorry JBJ article.

[Florida Power And Light]

Upgraded Aesthetics signage:

' Florida's First Coast- where the concrete begins!'

[marcuscnelson]

Attended the hearing. Most people who attended were largely concerned about the effects of the highway on their property, with a few people more broadly concerned about the general issue of building this many lanes.

The Harley Davidson dealership is incredibly upset, because the Diverging Diamond Interchange at Baymeadows would make it very difficult to access their dealership, especially with 18-wheelers or a group of motorcycles for charity rides.

FDOT's engineers and consultants were nice enough, but there was a real lack of responsibility on their part about the impact of what they are attempting to build. Apparently they have to rebuild the highway because the surface isn't thick enough for modern standards, and purportedly state law requires that they double the number of lanes to meet the Level Of Service. Please note, this construction will only bring the highway to LOS C. Also the price tag has risen from $386 million to $451 million, caused largely by an increase in the cost of the JTB-Atlantic Blvd portion.

One of the consultants said that the difference between Jacksonville and South/Central Florida is that those communities are apparently clamoring for transit in a way that North Florida isn't. There was a real sense of blindness towards the existence of the FEC as an option for passenger rail, and a weird focus by the engineer on buses, like how you can't get people to ride buses or the eventual possibility of taking some of the lanes (because it's very hard to make a guess of future traffic numbers, as Riverside Avenue should prove) for buses or autonomous vehicles, which are "the future". There was also a claim that this should be the last time they have to widen the highway because future widening could be cost-prohibitive, so surely next time we would have to build transit. Very interesting thinking going on at FDOT.

You can mail in or email public comments to Project Manager Michael Brock at michael.brock@dot.state.fl.us until January 24th, so whatever your feelings about this highway I encourage you to make that clear to FDOT.

[Florida Power And Light]

When an ever increasing Level of Service can no longer be met / accommodated ....... Then What?

[jaxjags]

You become the ATL.

[Transman]

It would be great if people would ride light rail but they don't just look at the two systems we have in Florida, Sunrail and Tri-Rail.  Both lose a huge amount of money each year.  Already the counties along the Sunrail Line are worried about taking over the payments.

Sunrail should have been busier, since all of I-4 was under construction and this was before the Covid hit.  Tri-Rail only gets around 15,000 trips a day about what a two-lane roadway can handle.  People say they will ride, but the numbers say they won't.  Tri-Rail will need grants and other income.  Last years budget was around $120 million and total revenue is around $7.0 million.  The state will have to continue to kick in over $100 million a year to keep it going.

Sunrail has fewer than 1,000 people ride on SunRail a day, on average. The commuter train runs up a huge deficit at taxpayer's expense, to the tune of almost $50 million a year. $150 million a year is a lot of taxpayer money for very few trips.  In Sunrail's case with a budget deficit of $50 million per year and only 1,000 riders it would be cheaper to just buy everyone a car (Tesla) and be done with it.  That is why buses would be better.

I agree you can't build your way out of this with roads but I-95 in Jax is a different matter.  The section from the overland bridge to Bowden was designed in the late 1940s by the old Jacksonville Expressway Authority.  The design speed was just 50 mph and the late 1940s AASHTO standards.  All of the vertical curves are to short and cause accidents, the roadway needs to be brought up to modern standards and site distance needs to be approved.  Rail would be great if anyone rode it, but the first step from a cost standpoint is express buses.

[jaxlongtimer]

I can't speak to the engineering of this section of I-95. 

But, as noted many times on the Jaxson, it is somewhat unfair to discuss losses on mass transit without taking into account the costs of acquiring land, building (mostly "free use") roads, financing them, maintaining them and expanding them plus the personal costs and value of our time we incur driving on them (i.e. with mass transit, arguably, a passenger could be productive somewhat since they don't have to attend to driving).  And, in some respects, mass transit precedes demand and the speed at which the population adapts to its availability (i.e. these losses could be viewed as "startup costs").

Common sense says that, if properly done, with scale, sharing transit vehicles has to be far cheaper than a vehicle for every one or two people. 

The problem is how do we get off this treadmill of roads and cars.  In other parts of the world, it seems mass transit plays a far greater role than in most areas of this country so it can be a success.  If we increased population density, mainly by going vertical and with infill, it would appear that we could get more for our mass transit dollars.  But, it is also a "chicken and egg" since people don't want to give up cars without the assurance of good mass transit.  Hence, the TOD that Ennis and others pontificate on regularly here but that is not done at all, correctly or consistently in Jacksonville or maybe in many other places too.

The day for mass transit will inevitably come (although it may be delayed if self driving shared vehicles becomes a reality for all) because we just can't continue to add lanes to our highways.  When total gridlock is a regular issue, there will be more of an outcry for growing mass transit.  It would be nice to anticipate the ultimate arrival of this day by planning now but, of course, we have no visionaries running the show in Northeast Florida. 

I think some of the frustration here is our officials don't seriously discuss expanding mass transit as a future option to solving traffic issues.  If it is not being discussed, we will never do more than keep adding to roads until we just can't but then it may be "too  late" to fix the issues in any reasonable time period or for any reasonable amount.

[Charles Hunter]

It will be years before the I-295 toll lanes even cover the costs of collecting the tolls. Don't even think about how long before the construction costs would be covered.

[thelakelander]

It would be great if people would ride light rail but they don't just look at the two systems we have in Florida, Sunrail and Tri-Rail.  Both lose a huge amount of money each year.  Already the counties along the Sunrail Line are worried about taking over the payments.

Florida does not have any ight rail systems. Sunrail and Tri-Rail are both commuter rail systems and operate very differently from LRT. They're headways are longer and they have less stops. Sunrail doesn't even run on weekends. In any event, I'm not aware of any public mass transit, school or library system that makes money or breaks even. Commuter rail has its place but it won't replace roadway widenings and construction. However, it can complement when it makes sense. I'm a big fan of commuter rail, but even I struggle to see it making much sense along the FEC corridor any time soon. Intercity rail complemented with BRT/express buses between Jax and St. Augustine seem to be more viable.